Oklahoma bombing/Iraq link - Australian article.

The Age ^ | 5/4/03 | Roger Franklin

[BagCamAddict]

Jim, how is it that you have access to this 'mountain' of unquestionable evidence? Do you work for the FBI ? Were you on the Jury? Are you a computer hacker so you can access any Govt file you want? Please explain how you have so much (so called) unquestionable evidence... because simply saying over and over again that McVeigh and Nichols were involved (which EVERYONE agrees with) MAY be only part of the story.

You say that "no one" has been able to prove there were other accomplices. I would argue that unless you are with the FBI or other high-level security clearance agency, you don't know that to be a fact. Unless you have a security clearance that gives you access to documents that the general public cannot see, you don't know if there ARE accomplices that have been kept out of the picture.

The phone card is NOT proof that McVeigh/Nichols did not make other calls on other phone cards, or from other land line locations, or from cell phones that they held for only short periods of time under false names, or collect calls, etc. It only proves what calls were made on THAT particular phone card.

If you do have a security clearance, perhaps you can debunk these flimsy connections:

Ramzi Yousef utilized local pawns for the first WTC bombing. He took locals with a hatred for America and directed them throughout the 'mission'. And then Yousef left the country the day of the bombing. One of those pawns that Yousef used was the guy who actually drove the truck into the WTC building parking lot. He was not a very smart guy, because he made 46 calls to Iraq during the preparations for the bombing. This guy was arrested when he tried to get back his cash deposit on the truck he had rented for the bombing.

A few dates:
Early 1991 (around the end of the Gulf War): Ramzi Yousef showed up in the Philippines seeking contact with a Muslim group there. Introduced as "the chemist", he proposed to collaborate in bombing conspiracies.

September 1, 1992: Ramzi Yousef arrived at JFK airport in New York City. He presented an Iraqi passport without a U.S. visa, was briefly detained (and fingerprinted) for illegal entry, and granted asylum pending a hearing. Yousef went to stay at the apartment of Musab Yasin, an Iraqi living in Jersey City (in the vicinity of where the Anthrax letters originated... but that's another story).

February 26, 1993: First World Trade Center bombing. Ramzi Yousef flew to Pakistan that afternoon. He subsequently ended up in the Phillipines.

November 22, 1994, Nichols went to the Phillipines, where he allegedly stayed at the same hotel as Yousef.

January 1995: Yousef accidentally started a fire in his apartment in the Phillipines, mixing the chemicals to be used in a plot to blow up 11 commerical airliners mid-air, enroute to the United States. This information was gleaned from his laptop computer which was left behind when he fled due to the fire.

February 1995: Yousef is arrested in Pakistan.

April 19, 1995: Oklahoma City Bombing.


Thoughts... **IF** there is an Iraqi connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing:

Yousef would have learned from his first WTC bombing, and as such he may have insisted that all of his communications with McVeigh/Nichols were in person, and/or in the Phillipines. Thus, there would be no record of telephone calls to connect further accomplices. McVeigh/Nichols could have been Yousef's willing pawns for this 'mission' just like he had willing pawns in the WTC bombing.

WTC = Ryder Truck
OKC = Ryder Truck

WTC = Truck Bomb
OKC = Truck Bomb (and yes, I understand the explosives were entirely different - but the method was the same)

WTC = planning time: 6 months (after Yousef enters country)
OKC = planning time: 5 months (after Nichols visits Phillipines)

Why did Nichols have an "in the event of my death" letter prepared?

Where did McVeigh/Nichols get the $20,000 cash and other funding for hotels, travel, expenses, supplies, etc.? (Yousef??)

How does a so-called white supremacist (McVeigh) have an affair with a Phillipino woman? Was the white supremacy stuff a well-rehearsed act? A true white supremacist wouldn't have felt bad about killing Iraqis in the Gulf War, and McVeigh did feel bad and sought counseling for it.

There may not be a paper trail from McVeigh/Nichols to other accomplices... but unless you had full audio and video surveillance on Nichols the entire time he was in the Phillipines, you don't know who he met with, what was discussed, etc.

In other words, as Dr. Frank has tried to say several times, it is POSSIBLE there were others involved. The evidence that is publically available may not substantiate it, but that does not mean it isn't still possible.

As for why the reporter wasn't able to find evidence of any accomplices, that reporter doesn't have the time or resources available that the Govt does for looking into such things. NO ONE had Nichols under surveillance in the Phillipines, so NO ONE can say what he did over there... while staying at the same hotel as Yousef.

I also wonder why "Jim" is so adamant that his opinion is the only right opinion, given that he has not proven his case any more than the 'conspiracy theorists' have. His entire case seems to be that because McVeigh/Nichols DID DO IT, that is the full and complete "end of story." When in fact, it MAY BE only a part of the story.

As a matter of fact, Jim's own 'evidence' - the Grand Jury document - states the following about John Doe II:

"However, in spite of all the evidence before us we cannot finally put closure to the question of the existence of a John Doe II. We are encouraged that the FBI continues to have an agent assigned full-time to the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building bombing and are confident that if any new evidence comes to light, they and other law enforcement agencies will pursue those leads."

So it is clear that even the Grand Jury, who did review the mountains of evidence, was UNABLE to conclude that John Doe II was a phantom, leaving open the possibility that John Doe II does/did exist.

At any rate, Jim is free to draw his own conclusions, as are we all. Perhaps one day, when all the documents are unclassified, we will all know the truth, whatever that may be.

[BagCamAddict]

Aaahhh.... now it's making sense.

Nichols had an "in the event of my death" letter because his visa to the Phillipines expired on January 21, 1995 -- the exact date Ramzi Yousef was planning to launch Project Bojinka. Project Bojinka included blowing up several U.S.-bound airliners in mid air. It's possible that Nichols was planning on being one of the perpetrators of that plot, by carrying a bomb onto his flight home to the U.S.

The fire in Yousef's Manilla apartment was on January 6,1995
Terry Nichols left Manilla January 16, 1995... five days before his originally scheduled departure of January 21, 1995.

Also, one of the sketches of John Doe #2 looks VERY MUCH like Jose Padilla. I realize he is supposedly of Puerto Rican ancestry, whereas Nichol's ex-wife (Marife Padilla) is Phillipina... but we all know how documents and such can be faked. I would be interested in a DNA test comparing Jose Padilla to Nichol's ex-wife.

[stevareno]

Nichols defense claims cover-up

By J.D. Cash

MCALESTER - Claiming government misconduct and an outright cover-up by federal and state prosecutors in the Oklahoma City bombing investigation, attorneys for Terry L. Nichols on Monday filed a 90-page motion to dismiss charges in the 161-count mass-murder case.

Monday's defense filing included several hundred pages of supporting exhibits presented under seal, thus unavailable to the public.

In their most direct attack yet on the government's handling of evidence in the case, Nichols' lawyers provided a litany of examples where lawyers said they had to turn to journalists - including this newspaper - to find evidence still hidden by the government, evidence that tends to show convicted bomber Timothy McVeigh was involved with a group of bank bandits operating from a far-right compound in eastern Oklahoma called Elohim City.

"The federal government has withheld critical information from the defense," the motion states, "has sanitized or redacted 302s (witness statements) and has buried other materials in the discovery provided to the defense, all in an effort to mask the connection between Timothy McVeigh and his conspirators."

Nichols says his lawyers were denied critical evidence that a gang the FBI called the Midwest Bank Bandits or Aryan Republican Army assisted McVeigh. The defense contends that Nichols was "framed" by his former friend to shield McVeigh's co-conspirators operating out of Elohim City and elsewhere.

Referring to a series of recent articles by Washington, D.C., Associated Press reporter John Solomon, and materials used in earlier stories copyrighted by this newspaper, "It was only after the disclosures by AP reporter John Soloman and our subsequent review of other federal investigatory files (the federal bank robbery files of Peter Langan, one of the Midwest bank robbers) that we discovered critical exculpatory material buried in the 1B file in the 37 file cabinets in the District Attorney's office."

Hoping to convince District Court Judge Steven Taylor to toss the case out, defense attorneys argued that prosecutors as recently as March 1 claimed they turned over all exculpatory materials.

"This court made it perfectly clear, however, that if that reliance proved to be misplaced, and it was discovered that any exculpatory material had not been disclosed to the defense, the remedy would not be a mistrial, it would be dismissal with prejudice."

"Put bluntly, this Court has been misled. The federal government and state prosecutors have withheld - and continue to withhold - critical information from the defense that shows that Timothy McVeigh was aided by persons other than Terry Nichols in his plot to bomb the Murrah Building."

Film shocker

From details discovered in a Secret Service file on Richard Lee Guthrie Jr., one of the Midwest bank bandits (now deceased) defense lawyers told the court that they discovered references to a video that appears to have captured the bomb truck arriving and individuals exiting, then leaving the scene before the blast. The existence of such a film has never been confirmed before.

"Security video tapes from the area show the truck detonation three minutes and six seconds after the suspects exited the truck," the Secret Service file notes.

The Secret Service document also records that an eyewitness at the scene recalled a woman waving the bomb-laden Ryder truck into a parking place minutes before it exploded.

"ATSAIC McNally noted that this fact is significant due to the fact that the security video shows the Ryder truck pulling up to the federal building and then pausing (7-10 seconds) before resuming into a slot in front of the building. It is speculated that the woman was signaling the truck when a slot became available."

Phone records discovered

Discovered during an inspection at this newspaper by a member of the Nichols defense were critically important phone records the FBI gathered during their investigation into the Midwest bank bandits seven-state bank robbery spree.

Nichols' lawyers say these records are the missing link between the bank bandits and McVeigh at crucial times in the bombing conspiracy.

"It was not until Mr. Earnest (Nichols lawyer) found the attached prepaid telephone calling card account records in Peter Langan's BOMBROB file in Mr. Cash's office that the defense had any idea that some of numbers in the OKBOMB file were connected to the Midwest bank bandits," the motion states.

Referring to an FBI memo the defense only learned of after this newspaper used it in story published Dec. 14, 2003, the motion states:

"This FBI memorandum is a veritable bombshell. It was from the Director of the FBI and it specifically contains the Oklahoma City bombing FBI case number. ... The importance of this memo cannot be understated."

Referring to information in the mption, defense lawyers point out critically important facts such as that McVeigh had a lengthy relationship with someone at Elohim City prior to the bombing and that he called there twice before the blast.

Until now the Department of Justice and the FBI have said they never had any evidence that McVeigh had contacts in Elohim City or called there more than once.

Concerning this memo, the motion states: "It (the memo) unquestionably indicates that the FBI had additional, important information about an unknown "second conspirator" not set forth in the memo. The motion also sets forth a series of references to several witness statements contained in files obtained by this newspaper involving the Midwest bank bandits and their possible links to McVeigh.

The motion points out that the government withheld those items of evidence in spite of orders to turn over any evidence McVeigh may have been involved with others beyond Nichols.

Judge Taylor said he would need at least until Wednesday to consider the material before deciding on whether the case should be dismissed or if there might be another appropriate remedy.

Gazette reporter J.D. Cash has been subpoenaed to testify Wednesday.

Below are the links to this and other related articles.

McCurtain County Oklahoma Daily Gazette
World Net Daily Article
Center For Security Policy.org

[justshutupandtakeit]

I agree that his early execution was unfortunate. However, it appears as though Nicholas would know more of al Queda/Iraq's involvement. McVeigh was just a stooge probably unaware of all those behind him. Though it is true that the published writing from him is replete with references to Iraq.

[justshutupandtakeit]

The question is WHO was he working for? Another question is WHY his writing was more concerned with fedgov actions in IRAQ more than any of the dubious reasons Clinton foisted off through his RATmedia friends?

McVeigh was likely doing this for ONE reason though there were others far more important underlying it.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Gee, and we know how skilled intelligence operatives tell EVERYONE what they are going to do, don't we? Iraqi intelligence was behind this, WTC1 and flight 800. This is why Goreslick is on the 9/11 connection to make sure these connections are NOT revealed. RATmedia suppression of the truth has prevented much about her incredible Conflicts of Interest from becoming a huge, instant scandal. Note the LACK of high ranking members of the Bush administration on this panel.

Al Queda is a front group (like Murder, Inc.) which works for Iran, and Iraq.

Only a fool whould claim that Murder, Inc. killed on its own rather than for the Mafia/Cosa Nostra/Outfit/Syndicate.
It is equally disingeneous to claim aQ did not work closely with Iraq. It trained in Iraq. It received funds from Iraq. It held close consultations with Iraq. Its operatives fled to sanctuary in Iraq. It had an operative terrorist group within Iraq helping Saddam against the Kurds. It is an enormous RATmedia LIE that there were no connections between Iraq and al Queda.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Big Whoop. Blathering nonsense does nothing to build a case that McVeigh was not a puppet on a string operated by unknown puppeteers. That crap was nothing worth posting.

[justshutupandtakeit]

Jamie Goreslick was charged with making sure no terrorist connections to Iraq were revealed from WTC1 and OKC. As usual the RATmedia cooperated and refused to look into suspicious questions.

The same RATmedia that today (desparate to defeat Bush) is refusing to inform the people that Gorelick has NO BUSINESS sitting on the 9/11 panel. It is understood that Saddam's connections to the terrorism in America cannot be revealed or Bush will be re-elected in a landslide and the destruction of the RAT party may not be then preventable.

Only the most obtuse or determinedly deceptive will not admit that intelligence operatives ROUTINELY use people who believe they are pursuing their own objective but are, in fact, pursuing another's.

[justshutupandtakeit]

WTC1 and OKC share one interesting commonality: FBI infiltration of the plots which did not stop them.

[mathluv]

Jayna's book, 'The Third Terrorist', came out this week.

[RBroadfoot]

what say ye all about Asst. Sec. Def. Paul Wolfowitz apparently thinking their was a McVeigh/Nichols-Iraq connection?

I forgot about that little detail. Darn, it does look like there's more here than the "official" version reports.