Author of the The Real Lincoln to speak TODAY at George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia

[Sequoya]

I never ignored President Davis' faults or tried to justify his actions. Any reasonable discussion of Davis has to recognize that his actions never measured up to his words.

That still does not justify Lincoln. If you want to get into a thread that looks at Davis, I will join you in pointing out his faults and shortcomings. This thread is trying to make Lincoln into some protector of the union and constitution when he destroyed both.

You may argue, as others do, that the new nation Lincoln formed is better than the union of states (countries) he destroyed, but it is wrong to say that he was not a dictator and not a tyrant.

I'm just trying to give some perspective to the facts and the history. The near worship of Lincoln by the elite education establishment and the press is a distortion of the facts. Pointing out that Jeff Davis was not a Jeffersonian has no bearing on Lincoln.

[WhiskeyPapa]

The right to seceed [sic]was accepted by most people prior to Lincoln's war.

Who?

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

Surprisingly (sarcasm) they disagree with the Wlat Brigade on many subjects (including the claim that no blacks served as Confederate soldiers).

I thought the show pretty balanced. The one thing I think was factually wrong was Lee's going forward to take communion with the black person. I'd like to see the documentation on that.

The show gave Grant and Sherman credit for helping to avoid the bloodshed that usually attends failed revolution.

Walt

[Sequoya]

You are too funny. You justify Lincoln's actions by quoting the Confederate Constitution. Real good Walt.

Maybe you can find a quote in the French Constitution that justifies his actions too.

[Sequoya]

Oh people like the New England States, John Quincy Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Alexis de Tocqueville, Federalist 81, just to name a few.

[WhiskeyPapa]

Come out, black knight!

You've got no arms, black knight.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

Oh people like the New England States, John Quincy Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Alexis de Tocqueville, Federalist 81, just to name a few.

The judicial power of the United States lies in the Supreme Court. They ruled that legal state secession was out of the question, black knight.

Walt

[Sequoya]

Trounced you and now you are reduced to posting pictures. LOL

Do some reading and come back when you know more about the subject.

[Sequoya]

They also ruled that black people are property. Both decisions are wrong. If you are going to insist on the infallibility of the SC you have to justify holding black people as property. Not that I doubt that you agree with that decision too, but I doubt that you have the nerve to admit it.

[ZULU]

Although I am sympathetic to the South, slavery was truly a repugnant institution.

Having said that, if anyone can read "April 1865, the Month That Saved the Nation", do so.

It puts everything into perspective. Southern Generals, rather than see the nation torn by bloody guerilla warfare, chose to surrender when conventional warfare was no longer the option. Northerners like Lincoln and Grant opting to end hostilities as soon as possible without the bloody recriminations which marked the end of most civil wars.

America was fortunate in the character of her opponents during this bloody conflict, and Lincoln's tragic and untimely death was the worst blow the Confederacy received, next to its defeat. With Lincoln in office, there would have been no oppressive Reconstruction, Carpetbaggers, KuKlux Klan, etc.

[WhiskeyPapa]

They also ruled that black people are property.

That was overturned by a constitutional amendment.

There was no need to pass an amendment on secession, because it was never, and is not now, legal.

Walt

[WhiskeyPapa]

Do some reading and come back when you know more about the subject.

Perhaps you can refer us to some of your sources, black knight.

Walt

[Sequoya]

It's not legal now because Lincoln destroyed the union.

[WhiskeyPapa]

It's not legal now because Lincoln destroyed the union.

Hmmmm.......is there someplace in the USA where it wasn't income tax day yesterday, black knight?

Walt

[Sequoya]

Start with these: The Writings of Thomas Jefferson by Albert Bergh; The Jubilee of the Constitution John Quincy Adams; the Implied Union, Kenneth Stampp; A View of the Constitution, William Rawle; Political History of Session, Daniel Waite Howe.

That should get you started. Come back when you finish those I’ll give you more.

[Corin Stormhands]

Why don't you go discuss Abraham Lincoln with your idol, David Duke?

You know, disagreeing on Civil War issues is one thing.

You're just an idiot.

[Sequoya]

Another subject started? I see you are now reduced to babbling since you have nothing to offer of any substance.

[Non-Sequitur]

If you want to get into a thread that looks at Davis, I will join you in pointing out his faults and shortcomings. This thread is trying to make Lincoln into some protector of the union and constitution when he destroyed both.

This thread is all over the board so it's as good a place as any. So, what crimes of Davis do you find particularly repugnant?

[republicanwizard]

Thomas Jefferson was not present at the Constitutional Convention, and as such, could not be regarded as an expert. I'm more convinced by Madison and Hamilton, both of whom would be in opposition to seceding.

Unfortunately, Jefferson was more versed in theory than practice of power.

[republicanwizard]

Well, stop making the same arguments as David Duke.