Police union probes Moose

WorldNetDaily ^ | 4-9-03 | Paul Sperry

[HenryLeeII]

From the way you described it, Meredith sounds like a political hack whether she came out of the police ranks or not. State legislatures control budget allocations of state agencies. Period. Georgia's Department of Public Safety does not make up its own budget and then pass it in lieu of the legislature. The FOP is a politicized organization, which is why some members are getting out of it and joining other organizations. On a personal level I have never known a cop that wants to see law-abiding citizens' right to bear arms taken away.

[from occupied ga]

You are citing misleading statistics (remember what Mark Twain said about statistics); put together all the categories by which police are killed, maimed, and injured, instead of breaking them down by this means or that means, etc

I see denial ain't just a river in Egypt. There's nothing misleading about it - go look on the US department of labor web site. The danger rankings are for total job related deaths. Likewise nothing misleading about my calculations for the city of Baltimore. The death on duty rate for Baltimore cops is lower than the overall rate for citizens. What's misleading about that? If you don't accept the obvious that's your problem not mine.

And as far as danger most of us don't face, that depends on whether or not you work in a convenience store. Their death rate is lower than cops by a lot (like maybe 1/8th), but almost 100% of the cause is homicide.

[from occupied ga]

Meredith sounds like a political hack whether she came out of the police ranks or not. State legislatures control budget allocations of state agencies. Period. Georgia's Department of Public Safety does not make up its own budget and then pass it in lieu of the legislature.

Of course she's a political hack, by definition, but she represents the GA police, The lady didn't do anything that she wasn't told to do. and you're wrong about the way budgets work. The state agencies prepare their budgets themselves and the legislature either passes it or not. The legislators do not have line item accountability for the budget. If it doesn't pass it gets sent back to the executive branch and they trim this, pad that etc. tryig to get the most money out of the taxpayers that they can, but that is an entirely diffrent issue.

At least we agree on Hourouchi

[HenryLeeII]

Okay, we agree on Horiuchi (or else we wouldn't be on FR), and that's a start! However, with state budgets, what agencies send to the legislature is a request; the legislature then either tweaks it or takes the chainsaw method, and then passes it. Also, agency heads are usually either invertebrates looking to worm their way up into the legislative/political stratosphere and curry favor by performing like good little puppets (e.g. submitting budgets with the proper diversity training requests, etc.), or they're good guys who have earned their position and submit budget requests that truly reflect the needs of their agency but know they probably won't get what they're asking for. In the case of Meredith, sounds like either the politicos took away a captain's position and replaced it with a political whore, excuse, department lobbyist. But that still doesn't mean she was a cop walking a beat or a trooper riding patrol. The average schleppin' cop is not anti-gun...

[HenryLeeII]

What is misleading about your analysis of Baltimore cops vs. average citizens is that the death rate for cops, like almost any other occupation that involves machinery, driving great distances, working with chemicals, or anything else remotely dangerous, should be lower than that of average citizens.

Why, you ask? Because "average citizens" includes school children, elderly people living in retirement homes, housewives, etc. In other words, people who don't really face danger other than walking out the front door and taking their chances of getting hit by a meteor...

[bvw]

It works every time. (Of course any good thing can be taken to extremes and made to not work any more ... when we get to the point that teachers are paid in cords of firewood then give me a call.)

[eno_]

It's not the death rate. It's the murder rate. Apples to apples it is comparable.

[Contra]

Not just negligence lawsuits, but how about criminal prosecution for witholding evidence? Not only misfeasance but malfeasance. And all so as to protect his "bruthas." I'd like to know the real story as to whether Moose was just being politically correct or was he actually so racist as to "protect" the black suspects, which would make him the equivalent of an accessory. If I recall, the media had the lookout information on the suspects and the police (Mooose) still didn't want it put out there, but Rita Cosby of FOX News put it out anyway and M&M were captured within hours, thanks to that. Moose is a disgrace.

[from occupied ga]

What is misleading about your analysis of Baltimore cops vs. average citizens is that the death rate for cops, like almost any other occupation that involves machinery, driving great distances, working with chemicals, or anything else remotely dangerous, should be lower than that of average citizens

I won't even begin to address your comment that hazardous occupations should have a lower death rate because I think you got your words mixed up, but I was comparing the HOMICIDE death rate among lowly disarmed serfs the the on the job death rate among Baltimore cops. The numbers are indeed comparable, not at all misleading. You are less likely to be killed in Baltimore if you are a cop. All of this bullsh!t about putting their lives on the line every day may be true, but they put their fellow citizens at greater risk of something actually happening to them. Or to phrase it another way they are willing to sacrifice their fellow citizens lives to protect their own when they lobby for citizend disarmament.

On the legislature, you are just plain wrong in two ways. First about how budgets are set. the gov presents the budget which consists of the wish list of every state agency head which in turn represents the wish list of every bureaucrat under the head. The legislature then approves it or not. If it is not approved, it is sent back to the executive branch and cuts are made or taxes are increased or both. This is called a compromise. when in reality it is nothing short of additional looting of the taxpayers' pockets, but as I said that is another topic.

Second you are wrong about the DPS. These legislative liaisons are the official voice of the dept of public safety. I sat in hearings on gun control because I was CSG's (state affiliate of GOA) legislative lobbyist for several years, and I guarantee you that both the state cop before her and Ms M (Whose name I also would have forgotten if I didn't have her card still) Assured the legislators during their testimony that they represented GA police.

You can believe what you want about police being on "our side" when it comes to the right to keep and bear arms, but for the majority of them, it just ain't so.

You can also believe that police work is high risk, but in high crime cities the police are at lower risk that the general populace. And overall, police work is a lot safer than commercial fishing, logging, construction work, airplane pilots, truck drivers, structural steel workers, and electrical workers just to name some.

[HenryLeeII]

No, you started out comparing death rates with homicide as a part of it. Murder is part of the homicide rate; homicide, as you said, is about equal to vehicular deaths. Then you have the other accidental deaths. What I said about the general population having a lower death rate is true for the reasons I stated. And regarding your activity with the Georgia chapter of GOA, first thank you for your service (my father is an active member in Virginia, like many other law enforcement people up here), but go talk to some state troopers off duty and you'll most likely get a different opinion regarding gun control than what the politicized hack lobbyist and the career-building captain with one eye on state positions up the ladder will spew.

[HenryLeeII]

On the legislature, you are just plain wrong in two ways. First about how budgets are set. the gov presents the budget which consists of the wish list of every state agency head which in turn represents the wish list of every bureaucrat under the head. The legislature then approves it or not. If it is not approved, it is sent back to the executive branch and cuts are made or taxes are increased or both. This is called a compromise. when in reality it is nothing short of additional looting of the taxpayers' pockets, but as I said that is another topic.

Second you are wrong about the DPS. These legislative liaisons are the official voice of the dept of public safety. I sat in hearings on gun control because I was CSG's (state affiliate of GOA) legislative lobbyist for several years, and I guarantee you that both the state cop before her and Ms M (Whose name I also would have forgotten if I didn't have her card still) Assured the legislators during their testimony that they represented GA police.

First, we are basically describing the same legislative process: The agency heads present their wish lists, and depending on the state they go to the executive branch or the legislative branch, and then its hashed out like you said in compromises, etc. Secondly, the lobbyist and career-climbing captain can claim all they want that they speak for the average officer, but that's like Chief Moose making the same claim after siding with the Montgomery County legislature to cut by 2/3 the requested raise for the rank-and-file cops (and of course he got a nice 8-10% raise, after endangering everybody's lives due to his racism and ignorance)

[from occupied ga]

No, you started out comparing death rates with homicide as a part of it. Murder is part of the homicide rate; homicide, as you said, is about equal to vehicular deaths.

I think I was unclear, because you were confused as to what I was doing. Let me clarify. I was doing both. The overall department of labor statistics indeed compare total death rates as you say. However the Baltimore comparison was done on homicide only. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

As far as what the state troopers say off duty, talk is cheap. I'll believe them when I read of cops getting fired for failing to enforce gun control laws. We had a number of police in our organization about ten years ago which would tend to support your conclusion; however, every one of them that I know has quit and gone on to do something else. One told me he just couldn't live with himself with the corruption going on all around him (he was part of the city of Doraville force) Another told me that he was too white to get anywhere. Another told me that he just plain didn't like th attitudes of his fellow cops. Those were the three that I knew personally, and yes they were all pro-gun, but the arent police any more.

[HenryLeeII]

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, the reasons you describe for the cops you've known who have left the force are all too common. My father-in-law was part of a class-action lawsuit while he was on NYPD because "certain categories" were given higher scores on various tests than what they had earned, so many more-qualified candidates couldn't obtain a higher rank they'd earned, or become a detective, etc. As far as you wanting police to not enforce gun laws, its a sentiment that most of us on this forum probably share (the case in NYC of the father shooting an intruder in his toddler's room is a great example) but it is unfortunately a dangerous precedent to start. What laws would be ignored next, or what charges would be trumped up in order to suit a particular cop's agenda? You start to get into the police abuse situation that some on FR complain about. Hopefully, one person on the jury will say not guilty and the father described above can walk. The cops' hands are tied until citizens force the politicians to change the laws. There is a lawsuit starting now in D.C. to reverse the gun ban. Let's all hope and maybe take some appropriate action to get the city council and mayor to get in line with Virginia's concealed carry permit.

[eno_]

It both the laws and the cops.

We need simple laws. All the incentives for advanced degress (like Moose's Ph.D.) is one of the main factors in turning cops into klones of public high school administrators. Being a cop should be an honorable trade, not a wannabe "profession."

That said, cops now operate in an environment where there are many more laws than they can possibly enforce. Using the Constitution as the guide is probably the best approach to selecting priorities in enforcement.

[aristeides]

I just heard on WMAL that Chief Moose is appealing the Ethics Committee decision that he can't make money from doing his book.

So I did a google check: Moose Plans To Appeal Ethics Board Ruling: Police Chief Believes Book Deal Is OK.

[aristeides]

Chris Core doing a segment on WMAL on Chief Moose right now. Montgomery County cop just phoned in, and confirmed that Moose has a terrible temper.

[Prince Charles]

Bump...

[aristeides]

Moose's Dispute On Book Escalates: King Comparison Angers Officers .

[Atlas Sneezed]

"Sell your diatribe to the widows and orphans of the police officers killed every year."

Sell yours to the widows of cab drivers, fishermen, and other workers who face greater dangers without being made into "more equal" citizens with special powers and rights, along with the ability to strike against the people they "serve."

It's a government job. No inherent "heroism" for collecting the paycheck, or necessarily even getting killed on the job. Heroism is something else.

[Atlas Sneezed]

"Yeah, dude, all cops are bad people, wadda wadda wadda. Gee, four are on death row. Out of how many thousands that serve and protect us?"

Compare the crime rates of cops and those citizens who hold CCWs. (Even ignoring that cops have means to avoid prosecution that others do not.)