Hail of Gunfire and Grenades Forces Apaches to Pull Back

nytimes.com ^ | March 24, 2003 | JIM DWYER

[F16Fighter]

"I say grab the SOBs by the balls and squeeze until they start begging our forgiveness then squeeze some more before even acting like we hear them."

Count me AND General Patton as two of your adherents ;-)

[F16Fighter]

"big fan? is this a footbal game?"

Yeah -- 'fan" of 'Team USA.'

You choose sides yet?

[Destro]

By the way speaking of Kosovo I remember General Clark talking about kills near 100 or so and when the Pentagon's MEAT assessment went in they found we actually took out a handful of vehicles--not all of them tanks. So history backs me up to be cautious and not gung ho.

[Destro]

Read my posts, pilgrim. I have a heavy posting history on here. How much have you posted on al-Qaeda?

[hotpotato]

What good will have we received so far?

A coalition of say... oh, I dunno, 'bout 45.

I'm not saying there should never be collateral damage and it's expected in war just as it should be expected that we are going to lose soldiers. War is hell. But a lot of armchair conducting of this war isn't going to help the soldiers on the field and second-guessing their superiors isn't helping anyone. I'm listening to the Pentagon now. I happen to believe them when they say things are going remarkably fast. I saw a journalist traveling with the troups ask a commander on-field about progress being held up. The commander gave him a puzzled look and smiled and said "I'm 24 hours ahead of schedule."

I grew up with the Vietnam war and all the newsfeed showing so many dead soldiers coming home. What's going on in Iraq now simply amazes me. We have the best trained soldiers and commanders in the world who are the best equipped. We have a major advantage over anything those people can throw at us and it's why our commander-in-chief says "we WILL win!" And it is why there exists this argument going on in this thread that there are dozens killed and not tens of thousands. I trust our military and their commanders and I trust Bush. I am not so sure that the journalists and folks not on the field have the knowledge to conduct this war better.

[Paulus Invictus]

MOAB and Daisy Cutters are needed fo clearing troop concentrations. Puff the Magic Dragon could also help sweep the ground of pests. Then there is the sweet smell of napalm in the early AM. Tends to calm troubled minds (permanently).

[hotpotato]

What good will have we received so far?

I forgot to add the thousands who surrendered quickly and eagerly and are not out in the field shooting and launching missiles at our guys saving more lives... those who trust us more than their own government and its military because of our legacy.

[EYEWatchin]

How is Goodwill measured? Do you believe for instance that the creation of a Palestinian state will bring Goodwill to the US? I am in no position to command the military, however it seems to me our losess result from things that should not have happened.

A convey of mechanics w/ GPS and no support getting lost and captured?
Engaging the enemy with soldiers and tanks, because we're afraid of civilian losses with air strikes, and our troops are killed as a result. If this is the price of Goodwill - its way too high!

[HardStarboard]

>>> You can go in and bomb that building and reduce it to rubble,'' but at the potential cost of many civilian lives."<<<

Gen. Franks, will all due respect Sir; if such a structure and its occupants are holding up the coalition advance, and if it is causing, or has the potential to cause, coalition casualities, then your job, Sir, is to make it cease to exist!

[hotpotato]

How is Goodwill measured?

See my post #87. More of that is to come. And it means more lives saved... more of *our soldiers' lives* saved. Again, I trust those in command on the field. What I don't trust or respect is armchair commanding, any more than I trust or respect the anti-war/Bush/America protesters who believe they have all the answers for the U.S. when they don't have the insight.

[F16Fighter]

"Read my posts, pilgrim. I have a heavy posting history on here. How much have you posted on al-Qaeda?"

You'll pardon me if I find it unnecessary to kneel in awe at the altar of your "heavy posting history."

I'd recommend that you either clean up a sloppy post, or convey your position clearly.

[EYEWatchin]

You make a good point! However, some of those who surrendered, picked up their arms again after we passed and continued to fight.

We have the most formidable military in the world, but when I hear of the incidents (Lost troops, Surrender Ambush, etc..)I'm perplexed. I don't think America will ever be the recipient of goodwill from the Islamic world. No matter how many lives we sacrifice!

[Destro]

I agree--We need Puff and I don't mean daddy.

[Destro]

I will not post to the lowest common denominator.

[Poohbah]

This ain't dropping bombs from 15,000 feet.

[Poohbah]

You mean the Muslims?

And the Croats...and the Slovenes...and...and...and...

[Destro]

agreed. So the numbers and circumstances should be clearer.

[Destro]

We should have taken no sides in that Balkan debacle, especailly not the al-Qaida aided Muslim side.

[hotpotato]

I understand your frustration. But I think we have to be careful about our reaction to our troops being killed in action. Much of the Arab community is convinced that they can change the tides of war because of what they see as American weakness when it comes to our soldiers being killed in action. Much of their response and propaganda comes from that perception. We as American citizens have to remain focused on the goal and get behind our troops and commanders and demonstrate that the tirant and his thugs cannot break us no matter how low they stoop. We are, afterall, proud Americans. :-)

[EYEWatchin]

It is my being a proud American, that makes me hope that we would never trade American blood to gain any favor from the Muslim world. I am behind (or shall I say embedded with) our President, and our Troops 110%! I will never believe the that the Muslim population of the world wishes goodwill to America.

Thanks for your time - Have a Great Day!