A Theory (What if there’s method to the Franco-German madness??

National Review ^ | March 10, 2003 | Michael Ledeen

[GraniteStateConservative]

JR,
Someone else agrees with you that there's something possibly sinister about Franco-German-Russian opposition to us.

I think you and the author are both right and that these countries may have shifted from being allies to being neutral to being enemies in one move.

Islamists with the nuclear might of Pakistan, Russia, France, etc. is a scary proposition. A Clancy novel that writes itself.

[GraniteStateConservative]

I don't think it's so far-fetched. You have two elements, one of which we already see with the Saudis-- fear of Islamism in the country which leads to total appeasement-- and one we really don't-- intense hatred for American supremacy. It explains why France is more belligerent toward us.

[Renfield]

I don't believe this hypothesis to be wildly improbable; certainly, the French and Germans have demonstrated through their actions that they will do whatever is in their power to hobble us. I've been thinking along the lines of Ledeen for some months now. The real question is, why are they so afraid of U.S. power? I used to think it was just France's insane jealousy of American success, but now I'm not so sure. There may be something far more sinister under the surface.

[GraniteStateConservative]

When a fear of domestic Islamist retribution combines with envy of American dominance, you get the behavior exhibited now by the French.

[CathyRyan]

Europe is 65 wants to retire. To bad they never put money away to retire on.

[GraniteStateConservative]

The argument there is that those who would replace Hussein would oppose economic ties to countries that supported Hussein. The problem is that it is substantially likely that had these countries gotten on board that the animosity would be dissipated. Yes, they have oil contracts and the like, but these countries know that Hussein will lose and they could easily shift to our side with little reprisal to jump on the bandwagon. In fact, we would guarantee that they would be treated fairly regardless of past ties with Hussein.

The interesting scenario is what does this alliance mean for the war with Iraq. If they cast lots with Iraq, it would be stupid to not aid Iraq against us wouldn't it? Why else bet against the odds other than you know something everyone else doesn't know? So, what do they know?

[GraniteStateConservative]

What France is doing is more than the Saudis. They combine that appeasement with envy of our dominance. They are casting their lots as enemies of the U.S. How wild is that?

[GraniteStateConservative]

I think you're underestimating them. This is a serious thing the French are doing-- by not just staying neutral, but actually doing everything in their power to oppose us. It is very well thought out. There is a method to their madness. I wonder what it is.

[KC_Conspirator]

I think Chirac will oppose us before, during, and after the war, because he has cast his lot with radical Islam and with the Arab extremists.

You know, this article might seem "out there", but many of these European leftists have a long history with arab terrorists dating back to the 60's. You are correct in pointing out that the European leftists and arab terrorists have collaborated with each other for decades because they shared some of the same ideas, including Germany's bader-Meinhoff gang and later the Red Army Faction. Those same ideas are of anti-western, anti-capitalist, anti-Isreal, and anti-America origin. And lets not forget that they both were funded by the Soviets to cause trouble in the west.

[putupon]

I can't believe Chirac and Schroeder want to exercise this "power" they're looking for in a Muslim dominated Europe. Can their hatred for the US be that great???

I don't believe they had the smarts to plan it, BUT, even not planned, the circumstances now present an opportunity to:

1. Collaborating with Russians &/or the Chicoms gives them the military power they need.
2. The deal to leave Europe alone and go after the U.S. could bring in a cooperation of the Islamonazis.
3. They have a history of trading freedom for a feeling of importance.
4. The Islamists claim their problems are oppression and victimization by THE GREAT SATAN. The Eurotrash can pander to them, much like the DimRATs pander to the victim class here in The States. Pandering to the bums enabled the Klintoons to take over the U.S. for 8 years, the ET may think they can do the same.

An unholy alliance between between the EuroTrash, Russians, Islamists and other miscellaneous despots and world power wannabes could indeed isolate the U.S.. Being that they are still dumber than rocks, the members of this Confederation of Dunces cannot see that the Islamists will turn on them once the Confederation's goal of miminmalizing the U.S. is achived.

Note to self: Pick up heavy duty tinfoil on the way home.

[kaylar]

I sent an e mail to NR in response to that article:

One thing to consider : As we learned at the time of the Millenium Summit in September 2000, there is an alliance between various Third World and European NGOs to "reform" the UN. They wish to turn the UN into a one nation, one vote "global Democracy". To do this, they wish to see the Security Council and the veto abolished by 2008.

The debacle at the UN is being finessed by much of the media-US and international-as proof that the SC (and not the UN itself) is cumbersome, outmoded, and incompetent.

We hear that the French presence on the SC and the veto is a source of pride in France.

Is it just possible , though, that the French government sees the abolition of the SC as a way to strengthen both the UN (thereby hobbling the US) and France? If the debacle at the UN leads to the abolition of the SC, could the Third World see France as its leader or saviour, or at least be grateful for this abolition? Would this lead to the strengthening of France not only in the UN, but in the EU, as French prestige is increased?

Whatever the French gain from an SC seat and the veto might be outweighted by what it would gain if both were abolished.

I anticipate we'll see more and more calls for the abolition of the SC and the veto in the months to come. The media will try to create the impression that abolition of the SC/veto is the 'correct' ,'enlightened' position to hold.

The article publised here at NR called "The Eurabian Alliance" might explain why the French want to destroy the SC, even though they supposedly gain prestige by being on it. The EU wishes to create an EU/Islamic alliance, and the percentage of the Muslim population in France itself is estimated at anywhere from 5-13%. And the EU as a whole is supposed to be 50% Muslim at least by no later than 2100.

By destroying the SC, France gains prestige in the Third World, hurts the US, and placates its Muslim population, all at once.

Name

Address

[GraniteStateConservative]

It may not be as epic of a scale, but you aren't a tinfoiler for asking perfectly legitimate questions (what in the hell are France and Russia thinking?) and coming up with logical answers (they are reacting out of fear-- of Islamists-- and loathing-- of us).

[Paraclete]

To understand their thinking, perhaps we need to abandon our preconceptions. It seems to me there has been a massive miscalculation by the US. Cheney and Rumsfeld probably had the more realistic view, but nonetheless we cast our final lot with Powell and State.

Every former Ambassador and analyst I've heard for the past several months have said the "French are just being French, they'll be with us in the end." Now they've changed their tunes.

[Ancesthntr]

It is not as outrageous a theory when you recall that Chirac has a decades long friendship with Saddam...

I wouldn't be surprised if large sums of money have been deposited in various secret accounts controlled by Chirac or his family. In fact, I'd bet on it - Saddam has had hundreds of billions of oil revenue over the decades, and it would be outright stupid to believe that he didn't bribe various Western politicians in an effort to obtain advanced weapons and deflect action against him. Now all we need is for some enterprising reporter to find this information.

[GraniteStateConservative]

Sound's perfectly reasonable actually. It falls totally in line with the notion that France is doing this to really and permanently hurt us-- which makes them semantically, if not more, an enemy of the U.S.

Does the outcome of the war affect the dissolution of the SC? Does France have an interest in having us fail and will they actively pursue our failure?

[5by5]

I prefer the theory that they're afraid of having the evidence of 12 years of arms dealing with Iraq brought to light.

But it really doesn't matter--you're either with us or against us. They've made their position clear. The reason doesn't matter anymore.

[Conspiracy Guy]

There only motive is to undermine the U. S.. IMHO, Too stupid to go beyond that.

[GraniteStateConservative]

I don't even think a bribe would account for France's actions. They are really over the top. The whistlestop tour in Africa to lobby against our lobbying efforts. It's one thing to say, "hey, we don't want you to do this and you won't have our vote." It's another to say, "we are going to focus resources-- time, money, etc.-- to defeat you." That's what the French are doing and it is behavior you'd expect from Iraq-- the country we are attacking-- and not France.

I'm convinced there's something more than meets the eye about this. It's not about a difference of opinion-- this is bigger.

[GraniteStateConservative]

They said Reagan was too stupid, too.

It's a mistake of the left to dismiss so easily your opponents. The grand scale of French opposition is more than just their being mad at us. They understand the ramifications of their actions and they have decided that it's smart to bet against us. We shouldn't just say they are stupid to bet against us. This is a country and not some schmuck at the track. France must know that there are "pros" to opposing us-- and some of those may be based on how the war goes, which means France may meddle in that, too.

[Paraclete]

Well, we're all pretty cocky about what will happen. IF (big if, granted), the US gets their comeuppance -- massive casulties, Saddam actually executes a scorched earth policy, and Iraq becomes totally unmanageable after a war, France could be sittin' pretty good in the world's eyes. AND the liberals in America will have lots of fodder.

The truth is, without GWB, we'd never have seen this much moxie from the US.

We are definitely at a VERY pivotal point in world history IMHO.

(and in all honesty, as a student of scripture, in the end, it will take J.C. himself to solve the world's mess)