Your Job May Be Next!

The New American ^ | 3/10/03 | William F. Jasper

[plusone]

Here's a thought...let's import Russian politicians. Only twice as corrupt but work for a fifth the price. A deal!

[oceanview]

The tech field is very tough right now for sure.

One factor to keep in mind is that large US technology companies do not innovate, and as a result, the jobs they have for engineers are easily "outsourceable" to offshore companies. Even if they have to hire two engineers from Bangalore, its still cheaper, and if they are doing some mindless software work like designing user interfaces or SQL code generating reports, those are "commodity" engineering jobs and they are going to the lowest bidder. That just leaves the established companies to drain off whatever jobs they can to lower cost providers.

So what is the way out of this? New business creation, the same thing that has always sustained and moved the US economy forward. Large tech companies are scared to death of startups who get funding, because they know that creative US engineers can innovate and attack their established businesses. But because of the dotcom debacle, venture captial is scarce now in tech, so startups and smaller companies are not well funded, and thus aren't generating the new jobs.

This is not to say that these H1B and offshoring practices should not be regulated, they should. As others have pointed out, the gov't would never allow lawyers and MBAs to be imported.

But in the end, don't look for large tech corporations to stop these practices on their own. They are run mostly by elitists who only care about their own compensations, and could give a damn about the country. The middle managers will never stand up, for fear of their own jobs. When they are given their marching orders to offshore the jobs in their organizations, they do it. Of course, they aren't thinking ahead, because once all your IT staff works in India, having the manager for those people be in the US makes no sense, that job will also be sent overseas.

The best advice for your nephew: Seek out a smaller company, someone doing innovative work. He will work alot more hours, might not have a decent benefits package, but it will be worth it. Select a field that is currently not mature: nanotechnology, wireless (don't just think voice cellphones, lots of new things still to be done). Don't be shortsighted and think that engineers only have to make tangible things, services are the big growth areas. What kind of engineer has a higher income potential, one that designs Christmas lights that sell for $3.99, or someone that develops wireless content delivery for cellphone users that pay $50 per month.

[Huck]

I've looked into forming my own LLC corporation, and do consulting on the side... yet the costs of even this are (to include reporting requirements to the state and IRS) are prohibitive.

I formed two LLCs this week. It ain't that tough.

[null and void]

I expect that's much easier to say when you haven't been unemployed to 8 months...

[Torie]

Sure, but micro short term pain cannot be the tail that wags the dog. Down that road leads stagnation and mediocrity, and ultimately a falling standard of living as our population ages.

[Always A Marine]

During the free trade debate, the pro and anti camps formed along class lines. Blue collar workers worried about the impact on their wages from having to compete with low cost overseas labor. White collared professionals labeled them 'ludites' for being economically naive... Now, maybe, the professionals are seeing the other shoe drop as their own protected jobs are being farmed out.

Very well said.

[Huck]

That's 20-30% out of work because our government saw fit to ship our JOBS OVERSEAS!!!!

Last I checked they were private companies making their own decisions.

Those same towns are quickly becoming ghost towns!

So I suppose it's the gubmint's fault that Leadville mines are tapped out, too? Welcome to capitalism.

[SauronOfMordor]

Right. Unemployment hovers somewhere under 6%. That means 94 of every 100 Americans is employed. The end is near. Run for your lives!

Two weeks ago, in the supermarket, I ran into an old friend I had lost touch with. When I had last seen him, he was a software development manager in my old company, which had been bought up by IBM a few years back.

Now, he's working in the supermarket as a cashier. But he has a job, so he doesn't count among the 6% unemployed

My brother-in-law, another software manager, had worked as a consultent for KPMG. Now he's working selling tennis stuff.

It's ugly out there in the tech field

[Jhoffa_]

During the free trade debate, the pro and anti camps formed along class lines. Blue collar workers worried about the impact on their wages from having to compete with low cost overseas labor. White collared professionals labeled them 'ludites' for being economically naive. (This is a simplification, to be sure, but as a generalization, I think it holds up well enough). Now, maybe, the professionals are seeing the other shoe drop as their own protected jobs are being farmed out.

I think you're right about the way the battle has shaped up, and it appears to be a problem.. I just don't know what to do about it.

If you toss up trade barriers you will "protect" overpaid positions that don't deserve protection. Union labor comes to mind and, imo there's no reason to be forced to pay more for products because "bob" the unionite is being compensated at twice the rate his labor is actually worth. You will also trigger retalitory tariffs on our exports if you go this route, leading to layoffs. If you go with a truly "free trade" model, there is virtually nothing that can't be outsourced, there's no way for the American worker to compete and maintain his standard of living. How do you compete with a bowl of rice?

This is a confusing issue, and it looks like a big problem brewing, so I always read these threads whenever I see them.

Unfortunately, I never see anything put forth that seems to be an ideal solution. The whole thing looks like a logical "OR" gate to me.

[GhostofWCooper]

I know a place to get a job.. they'll always be hiring. They never 'shrink' or export the work to china.

I'm gonna get me a GUBBERMINT JOB!!

[mrb1960]

Well how about we keep capitalism all to ourselves then, when word leaks out and other countries steal our jobs then that puts us out of business. I say take care of ourselves and to hell with other countries. What good are we when we put food in the mouths of our competitors and not our fellow citizens right here in the good ole US of A????

[RockyMtnMan]

A steady trickle of Red Chinese engineers, project planners, and managers had been brought to Dell’s Austin campus for training, and some U.S. Dell employees had made the trek to China for four-to-six-month stints to train Chinese personnel there.

But soon there won't be.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

First, what seems to be the problem here, as is common in situations like this, is we focus on the "identifiable individuals" that need assistance rather than the enormous number of people who benefit from cheaper services and products. Part of our basic, biological human nature is to rush to the aid to identifiable human beings while ignoring the greater number of those who benefit.

I don't feel I've benefitted from being able to buy cheap Chinese crap. Any time I have had to buy it, it usually falls apart quickly. I suppose that helps keep the demand up. Nevertheless, I tend to pay a bit extra and Buy American.

Second, the same arguments that apply in this case can be used for high tarrifs. Again, we may find identifiable individuals in this country who are harmed by global trade, but we miss the millions who benefit from lower prices. We also miss, as in the above, that we sell other products and services to the foreign countries we are considering restricting.

You are assuming we think tarriffs are a bad thing. I don't. I'd rather have high tarriffs than Corporate Income taxes and the Inheritance Tax. The government must be funded somehow.

Third, it always strikes me that the rhetoric in trade and related subjects is couched in almost warlike terms. A trade war, is a war nonetheless. Most assuredly, trade should be fair, but there should be trade in both goods and services.

And what exactly do you think the stance of Mexico, China, and India is in all of this? Mountains of benevolence? Don't be so naive. They know they are at war with us. They also know they are winning. We are the dummies who think we can sell our birthright for extra piles of cheaply made junk.

Don't just look at the net flows of trade into our country in their favor. Look at the net flows of people. In 50 years, various parts of America will be China, India, and Mexico (heck, lots of it already is). The folks dictating these policies aren't merely satisfied with their overseas factories and software offices, they want to replace the freedom loving American with docile Coolies and Wetbacks.

Abortion, birth control and job loss for Americans, mass immigration, capital export, and all around favoritism for foreigners. There is a word for this - it is called genocide. Americans and America are gradually being replaced. The product at the end of the sausage machine will be something, but it won't be the America of yesteryear. Savor your memories of freedom while you still have them.

[Indrid Cold]

On the other hand, the 27" TV set that you (theoretically) just bought at Wal-Mart for $219 might have cost your dad $800 in today's dollars.

[Black Agnes]

The Open Borders Conspiracy

[null and void]

Right. Unemployment hovers somewhere under 6%. That means 94 of every 100 Americans is employed. The end is near. Run for your lives!

Noooooo, that means 6% are collecting unemployment. People who have been out long enough to run out of unemployment INSURANCE benefits are non-persons and are not counted.

People who are self employed, and can't find jobs don't qualify for unemployment, and aren't counted.

Part time workers are not counted.

Ph.D. burger flippers are counted as fully employed.

According to The San Jose Mercury News, fully 20% of the jobs in Silicon Valley have PERMANENTLY moved away, mostly off shore.

There are 80,000 people still counted on the unemployment rolls here, the real number is at least twice that.

Yet you think the economy is booming? Washington would LIE to us would they?...

[Huck]

Oh, this is a JBS thread. I didn't look at the source. That explains it.

[RockyMtnMan]

I think the title should have been "Your job is next"

[The FRugitive]

Shit, someone give me some good news before I go to bed...

I'm one of the uncounted unemployed...I'm a programmer and I've exhausted my unemployment benefits. I'm going on a year unemployed.

During that year I got one interview that I was qualified for. They told me I was their second choice but the first choice took the position.

Currently I'm working on developing a product for a niche market and I've got a client willing to pay me about 20K if I can pull it off which I'll use as seed money to market my product...

When times were good people thought they would go on forever. I remember reading (and sadly beleiving) articles talking about a new economic reality and that we would be in a multi-decade boom.

Hopefully all this doomsday talk is just the flip side of that...hopefully :(