Posted on 03/07/2003 9:35:10 PM PST by WhiskeyPapa
Wow, I'm so impressed. Dana thinks a 5-4 decision is unanimous. ROTFLMAO!
According to a secondary source I have, the Court ruled unanimously that secession was not allowed, but split 5-4 on which branch of government had the authority to put down the rebellion, Congress or the Executive.
Walt
It really doesn't matter what some "secondary" source says, what matters is the decisions involved.
Secondary sources have their place.
What matters most is that 5 is greater than 4.
Walt
There was no declaration of war.
The majority opinion states that the whole executive power belongs to the president. You don't like the outcome -- a stronger and more free United States, so you carp.
Walt
What matters is refuting your lies about the case, and other issues.
You should try and do that then.
Walt
The judicial power of the United States lies in the Supreme Court. That's in the Constitution.
The rebels (and there weren't nine million of them) couldn't bring the revolutionary power to overthrow the lawful government.
Walt
You indicated there was a "declaration of war" by the United States.
Was that a lie, or just ignorance, or some third alternative?
Walt
Huh? Who said it didn't? Obfuscation? Congress declares war, and it did declare war ex post facto
Cite a Congressional declaration of war on the rebels. Where can we see that? What was the wording?
The whole Union position was based on the idea that no state could get out of the Union on its own. Neither the Constitution nor the laws have been modified in any way since the ACW to exclude state secession. There was no legal right to secession before the ACW, and there is not one now.
Walt
I don't hate southern people. I am a southerner myself. I just don't have a high tolerance for seeing the historical record perverted. Apparently, you do.
Walt
More free? In your dreams!
Just casually glancing around, I don't see anyone up on an auction block.
Walt
That is not a declaration of war. The Union position clearly was that no unilateral state secession was possible under U.S. law. A declaration of war would have given the rebels a legitimacy they never commanded.
The Prize Cases majority ruling even refers to the "so-called Confederate states."
You tried to mislead people, but you got caught.
Walt
Show me.
In the meantime, check this out.
I got this off the NG Nashville.general:
"...in 1842 a group of prominent southern slaveholding members of the House of Representatives crafted the following statement to condemn the idea that the Union was not permanent:
"Whereas, the Federal Constitution is a permanent form of Government and of perpetual obligation... and the dissolution of the Union necessarily implies the destruction of that instrument, the overthrow of the American Republic, and the extinction of our national existance... [To advocate breaking up the Union is thus] a high breach of privilege, a contempt offered to this House, ... and involves necessarily, in its execution and its consequences, the destruction of our country and the crime of high treason." [Source: Congressional Globe, Jan. 1842, pp. 169-170.]
How about that?
Walt
Wattle, when the states seceded (not prohibited BTW)...
I am afraid it is prohibited.
According to the Militia Act of May 2, 1792, as amended Feb 28, 1795, Sec. 2:
"And it be further enacted, That whenever the laws of the United States shall be opposed or the execution thereof obstructed, in any state, by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the powers vested in the marshals by this act, it shall be lawful for the President of the United States to call forth the militia of such state to suppress such combinations, and to cause the laws to be duly executed. And if the militia of a state, where such combinations may happen, shall refuse, or be insufficient to suppress the same, it shall be lawful for the President, if the legislatures of the United States be not in session, to call forth and employ such numbers of the militia of any other state or states most convenient thereto, as may be necessary, and the use of militia, so to be called forth, may be continued, if necessary, until the expiration of thirty days after the commencement of the ensuing session."
The Supreme Court actually refers to the Militia Act in the Prize Cases ruling. Guess that slipped past you when you were reading it.
Walt
So what? The issue for the great bulk of northerners was Union, not slavery.
Walt
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