Posted on 03/05/2003 11:35:33 PM PST by kattracks
Edited on 05/26/2004 5:12:28 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
2. Supposing the miracles were true, how is it that Jesus still failed to qualify as the Messiah?
He did not liberate Israel.
When you say that He ignored the Torah, do you mean that He allowed the adultress to go free? Do you mean that He allowed His followers to pick wheat on the Sabbath?
Among other things, yes. The he sugested ignoring God's Laws.
His own death sentence when He claimed He was the Son of God in answer to a direct question. They were having trouble coming up with corroborating witnesses.
I have no desire to go about attacking Christianity, but either there is one diety or many.
Also, don't forget the fact that the mob accepted responsibility.
If the ob was made up of collaborators, then they could not represent the Jewish people.
Constantin did not re-write the Bible. He may have convened the Council, but there is no evidence for what you are saying. And expunging things from the Talmud is not the same as having that done to Holy Scripture.
Check the number of early NTs.
The fact is that most of the the Apostles knew only Aramaic and Hebrew. Greek Translations came later, by gentiles.
If you want to believe that nothing was changed, that is your right.
However, many terms and phrasexs in the Hebrew Scriptures were mistranslated and/or altered in the Greek Versions.
For Instance Isaiah 7:14 was mistranslated. "Almah" is taken as Virgin instead of Young Woman.
Textual analysis of the Bible creates real problems.
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_birthnarrative.html
Of course, this is hardly limited to the NT. There are many duplicated stories in the Hebrew Bible; so much so that is has been divinded in to the Book of "E"(Elohim) and the book of "J" (YVWH). http://www.artsci.wustl.edu/~cwconrad/nt.html
That is like saying that Polands communist Parliament under Soviet occupation represented the Poles.
Except wouldn't you agree that you truly cannot compare one institution with another--one is of divine origin, the other human? Be that as it may, that still leaves the high priest Caiphas and the other priests. Furthermore, there's that troubling aspect of choosing freedom for Jesus Barabbas (son of the father) over Jesus (Son of the Father).
He did not liberate Israel.
As I said before, I never knew this to be the bottom line in Jesus' rejection.
May I ask the Jewish interpretation of the "stone which the builders rejected has become the cornerstone," (Ps.118:22) and all of Isaiah 53?
As you know, Jesus said “My Kingdom is not of this world.”
Me: When you say that He ignored the Torah, do you mean that He allowed the adultress to go free? Do you mean that He allowed His followers to pick wheat on the Sabbath?
You: Among other things, yes. The he sugested ignoring God's Laws.
Who was really ignoring God’s Laws? See Matt 15:3-20> Here Jesus is taking the Pharisees and scribes to task for putting human traditions above those of God’s: “Why do you for your part act contrary to the commandment of God for the sake of your ‘tradition’? Also, see Luke 11 and Mark 7:8 “You disregard God’s commandment and cling to what is human tradition.”
Me: His own death sentence when He claimed He was the Son of God in answer to a direct question. They were having trouble coming up with corroborating witnesses.
You: I have no desire to go about attacking Christianity, but either there is one diety or many.
See Gen 1:26 :Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…” and Gen 18: 1-5, which begins “The Lord appeared to Abraham by the terebinth of Mamre…Looking up, he saw THREE men standing nearby…”
That would be a forerunner to the revealed Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Me: Also, don't forget the fact that the mob accepted responsibility.
You: If the mob was made up of collaborators, then they could not represent the Jewish people.
Well, that brings us back to Caiphas again, doesn’t it? However, the mob confirmed it. Who said the mob was made up of collaborators anyway? If you remember, the Jewish priests were the ones who exhorted them in the first place. The point is that Pilate gave in because he was afraid to go against the overwhelming tide.
I have to go now so I’ll finish the rest later. Maybe tomorrow -- daughter has homework. TTYL!
But by about the 400's that was all thrashed out
The fact is that most of the the Apostles knew only Aramaic and Hebrew. Greek Translations came later, by gentiles.
Actually, the most ancient translation of the Old Testament is the Septuagint, which was written in Greek. Jews made use of it long before the Christian Era, and in the time of Christ it was recognized as a legitimate text, and was employed in Palestine even by the rabbis. The Apostles and Evangelists utilized it also and borrowed Old Testament citations from it, especially in regard to the prophecies. It was held in high esteem by all.
If you want to believe that nothing was changed, that is your right. However, many terms and phrasexs in the Hebrew Scriptures were mistranslated and/or altered in the Greek Versions. For Instance Isaiah 7:14 was mistranslated. "Almah" is taken as Virgin instead of Young Woman.
I will look that up. Can't comment because don't know. As for nothing changing, I read in a publication that there are not huge significant changes in the translations. I do understand, however, that in the hopes of making the Bible more of an everyday companion that accuracy has been sacrificed. What I do is I have more than one translation. Having said that, I know that they are not all equal--and one must guard against reading deliberate mis-translation made by way of rationalizing an agenda or heresy.
Are you saying the crowd was the Jews?
The problem is not identifying Jesus' tormentors as Jewish officials or obervant Jews. The problem is with the article "the," as if there were a racial aspect to a conflict between members of the same religion.
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