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Snubbing Turkey--State Department missteps played a part in Saturday’s embarrassing vote.
National Review ^
| 3-3-03
| Joel Mowbray
Posted on 03/03/2003 8:04:12 AM PST by SJackson
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To: seamole
Actually, our one ace in the hole with Islam is that the only reason it has so many adherants is that they are given the choice: become muslim or we shun you, take your stuff, or even kill you.
Once people are given a choice and we reach a point where it is LEGAL and SAFE to have even the concept of a Christian bookstore in downtown anywhere in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, etc, Islam will die of natural causes.
It's strength is in the ability to compell people to follow. Take away that issue and it collapses (I hope).
141
posted on
03/03/2003 3:51:16 PM PST
by
RobRoy
To: RobRoy
compell = compellll
142
posted on
03/03/2003 3:52:06 PM PST
by
RobRoy
To: Thud
Go ahead. Start the wheels. Grease the skids. Others will follow the precedent. And in the end the world will see total peace with only deep sea creatures alive. Maybe they'll evolve a better sapiens. Let's roll..
143
posted on
03/03/2003 3:54:24 PM PST
by
a_Turk
To: SJackson
144
posted on
03/03/2003 3:58:26 PM PST
by
Happy2BMe
(HOLLYWOOD:Ask not what U can do for your country, ask what U can do for Iraq!)
To: a_Turk
They made it us or them. It will be them. Your country will be too close to the blind giant when it starts stomping, and without any claim on its gratitude.
Fortunately America is 12,000 miles upwind.
145
posted on
03/03/2003 4:03:29 PM PST
by
Thud
To: Thud
Just as you were not safe from terror, you won't be safe from that. In the end everything just bleeds together.
146
posted on
03/03/2003 4:05:35 PM PST
by
a_Turk
To: Thud
Quite simply, I stand by my theory that some Albright leftovers had a hand in this. I hope that proof someday sees daylight to prove me right. In the mean time, they are friends so let's not burn bridges. I'm more concerned about the traitors in Mexico and Canada than the actions of a democratic nation like Turkey.
147
posted on
03/03/2003 5:19:00 PM PST
by
Beck_isright
(going to war without the French is like duck hunting without an accordian)
To: Servant of the Nine
It is hard to get rid of individual government employees who are not political appointees. So the best approach would be to privatize most of the State Department. Layoff the government employees and contract out their jobs to the private and non-profit sector.
To: a_Turk
>Just as you were not safe from terror, you won't be safe
>from that. In the end everything just bleeds together.
Oh please!
Northern Iraq just became an American vital interest. Your government just showed that its interests and America's are incompatable.
Being the more powerful party, American interests in Northern Iraq will trump Turkey's.
Turkey will not get an apology from America. It will not get money from America. It will get nothing from America.
Allah is on the side of the bigger battalion, and Turkey isn't.
To: Beck_isright; a_Turk
I stand by my position that the State Department is notoriously an Arabist coven, the carrot of post-career cushy positions in Saudi-financed institutes is influential. The Turks are not Arabs, and as has been mentioned on this thread, form an unofficial alliance with the U.S. and Israel. The Arabists in the State Department take their cues from what pleases their masters, and plot accordingly. The fact that Arafat was the most frequent White House guest during Clinton's presidency was pleasing to them and they were glad to help Clinton in his quest for a legacy.
Obviously they feel otherwise about President Bush.
To: Beck_isright; TigerLikesRooster; a_Turk; Dark Wing
Train wrecks are rarely the result of deliberate action but they happen. I can see this particular train wreck coming. It will be a Greek tragedy of the Delian variety:
For the Strong Do What They Will
And the Weak Endure What They Must
That's why I've been using an analogy of a blind giant who likes to tap dance. Subtlety has never been an American style. We go for brute force. The conscience which inhibited excesses is now merely a policy choice of the current administration rather than an enforceable requirement of the American people.
I fear what we will do to ourselves in our wrath, not what our enemies might do to us. Or we'll do to them.
The Turks are merely clueless by-standers who can't conceive of how things have changed and what will happen in their area. They, and the South Koreans will find out right quick if the North Koreans attack any of our aircraft.
151
posted on
03/03/2003 5:57:09 PM PST
by
Thud
To: a_Turk
Thank you for posting this. Even though Powell was very cordial, our FM's delegation complained that their treatment by State was humiliating.
Asinine, this whole thing. Someone is trying to screw both of us...
I have been following your recent "rants" about the situation, and was setting myself to flame you...
Then I read this article, and your response. I am glad I listen to my instincts and did not flame away!
This has State's stench from Foggy Bottom all over it, and mark my words it will be traced back to some NWO-Type Clintonista/Mad Maddi Halfwit holdover...or some career Hack with an axe to grind agains GWB or the US in general.
We are pissed at the Muslim world in it's current state, but we should remember our Allies and alliances. We also will not let another Muja Hadeen situation get out of hand with the Kurds! If they can't play by Human rules, they will end up like the vermin at Tora Bora!
My gut tells me this pooch was screwed on purpose. We need to know who and why!
152
posted on
03/03/2003 5:59:26 PM PST
by
Itzlzha
To: a_Turk; 11B3; 2Trievers; alethia; AM2000; another cricket; ARCADIA; Archie Bunker on steroids; ...
Turk, hats off to your guys in the old country!
If only we had some chaps here who could act so forthrightly in their country's best interests.
Dude, it ain't rocket science. The Turks want an oil field (or two) of their very own. Kirkuk and Mosul would do nicely. And I totally concur! The entire faux-country, "Iraq," would, IMNSVHO, be better off as as a vilayet of Turkey than as a rump convenience of the defunct Foreign Office of the British Empire.
As far as our overly picturesque quondam allies, the Kurds go, well, so be it. They need clean drinking water and fast horses, and their bandit culture and all-too-numerous-progeny are secure. The Turks won't treat'em much worse than the Maine state police would. And one whole hell of a lot better than the deal they are getting from Saddam Hussein. (Let the Swedish Highway Patrol deal with the rest of them...."so how are you liking this diversity crap, Sven?")
Very mysterious of Allah to place these lucrative deposits under the posteriors of the Kurds. Have at them. These quaint and colorful natives are about as capable of running a country (or a church picnic) as Bruce Springsteen is of playing the guitar!
To: happygrl
As a former "Arabist" who turned down a position in the State Department, I tend to disagree. There were many who wished to institute Kemalist reforms and teach the Turkish model throughout the Middle East. They were blocked by the Congress, who had the oil money pouring in as the camel herders turned billionaires were willing to foot the bill for privelage. Sadly, the State Department, as observed by every officer with a brain that I served with, is full of the socialist sympathizer types. They felt that we could find peace with everyone, including the USSR and the ChiComs. That fallacy is why Nixon went to China (among many other reasons) and why so much of our industry is relocating there today to take advantage of slave labor. If we gave Turkey 1/10th of the breaks we gave the communists in China, they would be a dynamo. But since the Eurocommies object, we went elsewhere and industrialized Mexico, Bangladesh and rural (now slave) China.
154
posted on
03/03/2003 6:47:41 PM PST
by
Beck_isright
(going to war without the French is like duck hunting without an accordian)
To: Thud
I tend to think the North Koreans will get a display of the modern nuclear arsenal they only dreamed of. Sadly, even though many hundreds of thousands will die worldwide, it might be a lesson that needs to be re-learned.
155
posted on
03/03/2003 6:49:57 PM PST
by
Beck_isright
(going to war without the French is like duck hunting without an accordian)
To: Beck_isright
You get no argument from me as far as the folly of our trade with China and the lost opportunities for other democracies such as Turkey and India.
The State Department has long had a reputation as being pro-Arab and anti-Israeli. If they are admireres of Turkey, there's little evidence of it. And it has been Congress who has blocked arms sales to Arab countries at times, such as the AWACS sales to Saudi Arabia, over the protestations of various administrations. I don't doubt that there are far-seeing officers in the State Department, but the Arabists are known to control it.
To: k2blader
ping
157
posted on
03/03/2003 7:21:24 PM PST
by
a_Turk
To: DainBramage
ping
158
posted on
03/03/2003 7:28:12 PM PST
by
a_Turk
To: yellowroses
ping
159
posted on
03/03/2003 7:30:20 PM PST
by
a_Turk
To: a_Turk
Gosh I love a reasonable debate!
160
posted on
03/03/2003 7:37:06 PM PST
by
MHGinTN
(If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
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