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Scouts unbowed by Berkeley bullies
Orange County Times ^ | Feb. 28, 2003 | Harold Johnson

Posted on 02/28/2003 2:36:31 PM PST by laureldrive

Edited on 04/14/2004 10:05:53 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Non-Sequitur
Divorce is not a sin if the reason is adultery or if one partner is a non-christian and desires a divorce.

Are you saying that James Dale is willing to admit homosexuality is sinful?

141 posted on 03/03/2003 3:17:09 PM PST by RAT Patrol
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Comment #142 Removed by Moderator

To: madg
Then how did James Dale win a unanimous ruling from the New Jersey Supreme Court?

Read the ruling and find out. It had nothing to do with employment or labor law.

143 posted on 03/03/2003 3:29:17 PM PST by RonF
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To: Teacher317
I stand to be corrected... Aren't hate crimes a federal offense?
144 posted on 03/03/2003 3:30:02 PM PST by SealSeven ("I feel so much better now that I have given up all hope.")
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To: Non-Sequitur
BTW, you are implying that because all people are sinners, the Scouts -- or whoever else -- cannot discriminate between behaviors and choose moral people to lead children. That is dangerous relativism that puts children at risk. If that were true then what would give you the right to call "discrimination" wrong? It is, after all, a behavior.

If you are so anti-discrimination that you apply it to behaviors, why aren't you against religious discrimination?

If you want to make the argument that all sin is equal and therefore cannot be discriminated against then how about murder, robbery, rape, etc? If a person has paid their debt to society are they entitled to be Scout leaders too? Or how about on going but non-criminal sin like addiction to pornography or something? If a guy doesn't mention it to the boys but does brag about it in the newspaper is he still qualified to be a moral Scout leader.

145 posted on 03/03/2003 3:37:15 PM PST by RAT Patrol
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To: Non-Sequitur
So shall we ban as a leader any adult who takes a drink? Any man who had been divorced? Any adult who gets a speeding ticket? I for one would not want my son exposed to liquor or lawless behavior. Nor would I want him led by someone who weakens the sanctity and permanence of institution of marriage. How about that? Will you support me in those areas?

A leader can be banned for any of these things, or for any other reason, by the unit's sponsoring institution.

Here's an extreme example. A physician who is an abortion provider applies to a unit to become a Scoutmaster. If the sponsor is a Roman Catholic parish, they'd probably say no. If the sponsor is a public school, they might well say yes. It's up to the sponsor.

The determination of whether or not someone is moral enough to be a Scouter is in some very limited cases set by National. In other cases, it's left to the sponsor.

146 posted on 03/03/2003 3:49:42 PM PST by RonF
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To: Non-Sequitur
According to the New Jersey SJ finding, the Dale interview was printed in the Star-Ledger. A search on "New Jersey" and "Star-Ledger" on Google turns up a commerical newspaper that covers Monmouth County in New Jersey, not a college newspaper.
147 posted on 03/03/2003 3:56:32 PM PST by RonF
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To: Non-Sequitur
And if the Scouts choose to discrimnate, as is their right, then why can they complain when some organization chooses to discrimate against them?

Because the group discriminating against them says they are not discriminating against them, and because the PC discriminators discrimination carries with it government sanction and monetary costs. The scout's discrimination does not carry sanctions or costs to its "victims".

148 posted on 03/03/2003 4:18:24 PM PST by Auntie Dem (Hey, hey, ho, ho. Terrorist lovers gotta go.)
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To: RAT Patrol
Divorce is not a sin if the reason is adultery or if one partner is a non-christian and desires a divorce.

That is not what Jesus Christ is quoted as saying in the gospel of Mark. Are you saying that all men and women who divorce and remarry do so knowing that they are entering into an adulterous life?

149 posted on 03/03/2003 4:34:39 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: RonF
A leader can be banned for any of these things, or for any other reason, by the unit's sponsoring institution.

And yet the national office took it upon itself to ban homosexuals as members and leaders for every single chartered troop. Let's take your example. What if troops chartered by Catholic churches demanded that anyone who supported abortion be denied a leadership post in the Boy Scouts? What if they said that children born of people who had divorced and remarried were illegitimate in the eyes of God and should be denied membership? Should the Boy Scout leadership then ban them from membership? Or should they let the local troop make that decision and not force their policies on the rest of the organization? And if the ledership allows individual troops latitude in that then why do they arbitrarily ban men like Mr. Dale?

150 posted on 03/03/2003 4:41:05 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: Auntie Dem
Because the group discriminating against them says they are not discriminating against them, and because the PC discriminators discrimination carries with it government sanction and monetary costs. The scout's discrimination does not carry sanctions or costs to its "victims".

I believe that the Scouts also deny that their policy is discrimination, too.

151 posted on 03/03/2003 4:42:04 PM PST by Non-Sequitur
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To: laureldrive
Democrats are good at bullying women (Juanita Brodderick, Linda Tripp) and children (Boy Scouts). It's only when they face men (Battle of Miami, 2000 election) that they run home to Mommy like the little girls they are.
152 posted on 03/03/2003 4:44:28 PM PST by Wavyhill
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To: Non-Sequitur
I didn't say that. You are avoiding the things I am saying and replacing my words with your own.

If you will look at my previous post you will see that I acknowledged that all people are sinners but that doesn't mean all sin is equal and good. It doesn't mean that relativism rules the day and since no one is perfect parents have no right to require morality from their children's leaders.

If James Dale wants to admit that homosexuality is immoral and wrong then fine. Otherwise, he is a bad leader for children.

Do you think a pornographer would be a moral scout leader? What about a murder, a rapist, a prostitute, a thief, or an alcoholic? There must SOME moral lines you would draw for the kids. Why do you continue to avoid MY questions?

153 posted on 03/03/2003 4:48:10 PM PST by RAT Patrol
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To: RAT Patrol
What he did was participate in immoral activity.

There wasn't any evidence of this. Unless you consider giving an interview to a paper immoral activity...
154 posted on 03/03/2003 4:51:37 PM PST by Stone Mountain
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To: Non-Sequitur
Bottom line: Homosexuality is a sick and unnatural behavior and is an automatic disqualifier for being a good leader of children. Ask mother nature. She agrees.
155 posted on 03/03/2003 4:52:02 PM PST by RAT Patrol
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To: RonF
The definition of the term "avowed" in the context of "avowed homosexual" has not been defined by National.

So why don't they define it?
156 posted on 03/03/2003 4:54:08 PM PST by Stone Mountain
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To: Stone Mountain
Was he a practicing homosexual quoted supporting the behavior in a publication that was available to the community? If he were a virtual kiddie porn producer quoted as supporting that Supreme Court backed behavior do you think he would be a good Scout leader?
157 posted on 03/03/2003 4:55:27 PM PST by RAT Patrol
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Comment #158 Removed by Moderator

To: JoshGray
private organizations should not be funded or subsidized with public funds.

That's a different issue. The fact is, Berkeley has a policy of subsiding -- if that's what you call it when they allow free use private groups that happen to be nonprofits. We can debate whether they should do that, but once they've started doing it, how can they withhold the benefit from the Sea Scouts simply because they don't like what the Sea Scouts stand for? Is the Salvation Army next? Maybe their tax-exempt status (a "public benefit" or "subsidy" in some people's minds) should be withdrawn merely because Berkeley doesn't like the fact that their soldiers and kettle holders have to believe in God.

159 posted on 03/03/2003 5:09:28 PM PST by laureldrive
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Comment #160 Removed by Moderator


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