Morality: Who Needs God?

AISH ^ | N/A | by Rabbi Nechemia Coopersmith

[tpaine]

The next step is to get my neighbor to agree, and other neighbors, and so on, to form a set of rules we agree to collectively enforce for the protection of all.
359 -jimt-


Hey! What a concept.. Why in no time we could draw up a constitution based on individual rights, -- and then spend the rest of our lives explaining to socialists why this is a good idea.

[Nix 2]

Which gives rise to the age-old question....:
"Do you know WHY you know to wear warm clothes in the winter?"

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Very Impressive Thanks for the ping. 357 posted on 03/03/2003 1:43 PM PST by OWK

Masterfully done. Bookmarked. - Thanks. - I think you should consider posting your arguments as a thread of their own. 358 posted on 03/03/2003 3:03 PM PST by tpaine

Thanks both for your kind words.

But nahhh... I don't plan on posting my own thread. For one thing, I'd probably just end up "burning my bridges" with my fellow Christian Conservatives (not that I haven't burned enough bridges already with my libertarianism, much as Dr. Machen inadvertantly burned his bridges with mainline Presbyterianism as a result of his staunch Anti-Prohibitionism) who might assume that I am trying to "justify Atheism".

I am certainly not trying to "justify Atheism". That's not my argument at all.

My argument is simply that I do not believe one persuades Atheists to, for example, Keep the Sabbath (a Transcendent Moral Judgment) by -- in essence -- claiming that they are otherwise unable to count to seven (an Objective Factual Observation).

It's bad argumentation, and I think it just makes Theists look silly.

[Roscoe]

Anti-Libertarianism is inherently Satanic.

Self-worship and hubris are the heart of Libertarianism.

[Roscoe]

It's always the drugs with you guys.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

To: OrthodoxPresbyterian It's always the drugs with you guys. 366 posted on 03/04/2003 1:12 AM PST by Roscoe

"Drugs"? Define your terms, Roscoe.

The Founder of my Church (Dr. J. Gresham Machem) was always an Anti-Prohibitionist in his day.

Alcohol was the Prohibited "drug" of choice at the time.
But little has changed.

Prohibition is an awful flop.
We like it.
It can’t stop what it’s meant to stop.
We like it.
It’s left a trail of graft and slime,
It don’t prohibit worth a dime,
It’s filled our land with vice and crime.
Nevertheless, we’re for it.

Since the days of our Founder, the Orthodox Presbyterians are ever on the side of internal Christian Conversion.

And as always, Roscoe, you who deny the reality of spiritual Regeneration, are on the side of external False Coercion.

Hypocrites, Frauds, and accomplices to State-Murder... that is your legacy; glory in it.

So it has ever been. So it shall ever be.

[Roscoe]

Hubris and dope.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Hubris and dope. 368 posted on 03/04/2003 1:31 AM PST by Roscoe

Hey, three entire words. Banzai!!

Let me know when you intend to make a cogent argument.
Never mind... We both know you won't.

You've tried to debate me before.
We both know you're not very good at it.

Stick to the sound-bites, Roscoe.

It's all you can manage.

[Roscoe]

Or is dope and hubris?

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Or is dope and hubris? 370 posted on 03/04/2003 1:37 AM PST by Roscoe

Roscoe, that's not even a bloody grammatically-normative English sentence.

You're not my blood-borne child, I am not certainly not going to pay for your remedial education.

Go beg for two-pence, or some such.

God have mercy.

[Roscoe]

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Okaaaayyy....

Roscoe can post a .GIF image.

Well, that's progress, I suppose.

When he is educated enough to formulate a Cogent Argument, wake me up.

[Roscoe]

Don't forget to say your prayers before you retire.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Okaaaayyy....

Roscoe can post a .JPG image.

Well, that's progress, I suppose.

When he is educated enough to formulate a Cogent Argument, wake me up.

(Just lay off the unclothed children next time, Roscoe... Given your fascination with same, we're beginning to wonder)

[nopardons]

I really hate to tell you this; however, if the founder of your religion ( it was founded in the 1920s ? ) wrote that little bit of doggeral, he purloined and massacred an OLD ( as in a few hundred years )piece about tobacco; which was more clever, funny, and not as insipid. Please don't doubt this. I know it for a FACT !

Many, many, MANY decades ago, my mother had a wooden cigarette package holder / dispenser, which had the original bit of doggeral on it, with the date. Many years later, I found it in a book about the history of tobbaco use; which DID corroborate the date and origin of the poem.

What you posted, I've never seen / heard before. It's a " Johny come lately " and not worth a tinkers' damn; except to you, dear. :-)

[nopardons]

Wake you up ? You reply whilst asleep ? Hmmmmmmmm ... that expalins quite a lot. LOL

[Roscoe]

Different folks worship different things.


NEW YORK (AP) ---- Several thousand people marched through lower Manhattan on Saturday to protest laws criminalizing marijuana use.

"Marijuana is good medicine" and "Stop all cannabis arrests" read signs carried by demonstrators in the Cures Not Wars 2001 march.

"We want to turn an alcohol and tobacco world into a marijuana world," said Dana Beal, a march organizer.

The carnival-like atmosphere was accented by chants including "We smoke pot and we like it a lot."

http://www.nctimes.net/news/2001/20010506/wwww.html

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

I really hate to tell you this; however, if the founder of your religion ( it was founded in the 1920s ? ) wrote that little bit of doggeral, he purloined and massacred an OLD ( as in a few hundred years )piece about tobacco; which was more clever, funny, and not as insipid. Please don't doubt this. I know it for a FACT ! Many, many, MANY decades ago, my mother had a wooden cigarette package holder / dispenser, which had the original bit of doggeral on it, with the date. Many years later, I found it in a book about the history of tobbaco use; which DID corroborate the date and origin of the poem. What you posted, I've never seen / heard before. It's a " Johny come lately " and not worth a tinkers' damn; except to you, dear. :-)

That "little bit of doggeral" was not written by Dr. J. Gresham Machen, founder of the Orthodox Presbyterian denomination.

Prohibition is an awful flop.
We like it.
It can’t stop what it’s meant to stop.
We like it.
It’s left a trail of graft and slime,
It don’t prohibit worth a dime,
It’s filled our land with vice and crime.
Nevertheless, we’re for it.

And it was certainly not written "a few hundred years" before Prohibition. Specifically, it was published by Franklin Pierce Adams, in 1931.

However, it is a reasonable statement of Dr. Machen's views on the matter.

HOWEVER, if you assert that it represents a "purloined and massacred OLD piece about tobacco", I would merely ask you to provide the original piece, with the original attribution.

I should like to read such a piece -- if you can offer it.

Regardless, it is a delightfully trenchant little anti-Prohibitionist bit of Critical Poetry in any case.

But, I'll happily await your historical attribution, with original primary sourcing.... if you have any.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Wake you up ? You reply whilst asleep ? Hmmmmmmmm ... that expalins quite a lot. LOL 377 posted on 03/04/2003 1:57 AM PST by nopardons

Some respondents require far less conscious refutation than others.

Classify yourself as you will.

(ahem)