The case for a just war against Saddam (Irish Jesuit professor on Catholic ‘just war’ theory)

Irish Independent ^ | 2/25/03 | Seamus Murphy

[Mr. Thorne]

agreement bump

[dead]

I agree too.

I must admit, I did not expect this conclusion from an Irish Jesuit professor.

[Conspiracy Guy]

DITTO

[Libertarianize the GOP]

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list

[irish_links]

Flurry

It is indeed a surprise and a pleasure to see a Jesuit, let alone an Irish one, apply Thomian reasoning to the Iraq question. It is a shock that he arrived at the conclusion that he has.

Given the foregoing, I hate to quibble, but I found the following phrase revealing:

"...Overall, the option that most nearly meets the proportionality condition is for the UN to go to war now, at the time that gives the US army the best chance of a speedy victory..."

Please note that it will be the UN that goes to war but the U.S. that will do the fighting. Doesn't that speak volumes regarding the European mindset these days?

[Conspiracy Guy]

Yes it does. I overlooked the UN US on purpose being happy that the action itself was supported. I am Irish and Cherokee but long removed from the homeland of the first side. My ancestors fought my ancestors tlak about disfunctional.

[browardchad]

"...Overall, the option that most nearly meets the proportionality condition is for the UN to go to war now, at the time that gives the US army the best chance of a speedy victory..."

Please note that it will be the UN that goes to war but the U.S. that will do the fighting. Doesn't that speak volumes regarding the European mindset these days?

Your take is probably correct, but you could also read into that sentence the implication that any lives lost by "the US army" due to delay by the UN will be the moral responsibility of the UN.

[GirlShortstop]

It is indeed a surprise and a pleasure to see a Jesuit, let alone an Irish one, apply Thomian reasoning to the Iraq question. It is a shock that he arrived at the conclusion that he has.

You can say that again!  Relieved and pleased bump.

[irish_links]

"....My ancestors fought my ancestors talk about disfunctional....."

Disfunctional? What you have described is nothing unusual. The Irish have been fighting each other since the Celts removed the Tuatha de Dannaan about 3,000 years ago.

It's quite a rare occassion when the Irish turn their abundant wrath against someone else. It took them three hundred years to band together to invite the Vikings to leave.

Then again, maybe that is the definition of disfunctional.

[Conspiracy Guy]

In my case I'm talking about my Irish fighting my Cherokee (a little Creek in there too) or at least being part of forcing the Native Americans from their homes and land. If I went all the way back to Ireland I doubt my ancestors fought themselves but I can't say for sure. We are a violent bunch at times.

[Mr. Thorne]

No, not from a Jesuit. Not these days. Mayhap there's hope yet...

[irish_links]

"...In my case I'm talking about my Irish fighting my Cherokee (a little Creek in there too) or at least being part of forcing the Native Americans from their homes and land. If I went all the way back to Ireland I doubt my ancestors fought themselves but I can't say for sure. We are a violent bunch at times...."

I understand, Flurry. I was just being a bit flip. Unfortunately, it is man's fate to be in constant war with himself and his brothers. At times he fights for himself, and at others he fights for the benefit of those stronger and richer than he. But at all times he fights.

I read earlier today that the move "Gods and Generals" includes a scene wherein an Irish brigade fighting for the Union charges against an Irish brigade wearing confederate uniforms. O! as Marx said, history is ever repeated, first as tragedy than as farce.

Moreover, we should not single out our Irish forebearers in this human folly. Your Cherokee forefathers undoubtedly duked it out with many a rival tribe on the plain as well. Such is the mortal stain of sin.

[Conspiracy Guy]

True brother, true.

[moni kerr]

There is an abundance of rational arguments for war against Saddam. The anti-war side on the otherhand seems to prefer the rhetorical diarrhea of a Robert Fisk or the slithery moral equivalence of a Noam Chomsky.

[dead]

I'm of 100% Irish descent, and have often joked that there will be no peace in Ireland as long as more than one Irishman remains there.

(The same can be said of my family's dinner table.)

[philosofy123]

Noam Chomsky

I was under the impression that Mr. Chomsky is jewish, and that most Jews are happy with President Bush? How do you explain his opposition?

[irish_links]

(The same can be said of my family's dinner table.)

I am less than one-half Irish (my sainted mother was a pure-bred Polish Princess. At least that was what she told us). Nonetheless, it is fortunate that potatoes are not lethal weapons or the family line would most probably have ended with my generation.

slainte

[irish_links]

"....I was under the impression that Mr. Chomsky is jewish, and that most Jews are happy with President Bush? How do you explain his opposition?...."

Most Jewish people are not revolutionary Marxists. Perhaps that explains the anomaly of Comrade Chomsky's behavior.

Regards

[Dumb_Ox]

At the universal transcendent level of ideals, the issue is simple: war is evil. ...war may sometimes be the lesser evil.

If this is so, then war violates the Pauline principle, doing evil that good may come of it.