Turkey wants northern Iraq

Daily Times ^

[Beck_isright]

Now you've done it, you've presented facts. How dare you! LOL

[Beck_isright]

"Imagine if the US had an hispanic army, a black army, an islamic army, and a white separatist army. On the other hand, don't."

Why not? We're already well on our way to settin up independent gay and lesbian brigades.</sarcasm off...This is the thanks we get from the Clintonization of our military. And what scares me is that the politicos in DC think that issuing "black berets" make for a great soldier. My old buds still in the service are not very happy right now, that I can assure you of.

[carton253]

You know, I be more inclined to answer you, if you weren't such a boor. Knock off the insults... They aren't necessary.

What I am saying... is that just because the French treated the Jews worse than the Ottomans, that doesn't excuse the way the Ottomans treated the Jews, which wasn't much better... except they didn't load them up and ship them off to be exterminated.

I don't think I brought the Kurds into it all...

Furthermore, my original comment, in its context, was to challenge the true situation of the Jews under the Ottomans... Not the situation today.

I am quite aware of the current situation, so you can spare me your sanctimonious lectures...

[Beck_isright]

Actually I must disagree with you and will click the biting sarcasm off. Within most of the Ottoman Empire the Jews and Christians were treated substantially better than in Europe, especially since many Jews fled to the Empire during the Inquisition. The reality is that in the Arabian peninsula and parts of Northeast Africa (the Sudan region) they were still enslaved and used by the shieks. The Ottomans allowed this to gurantee stability in this region, a buy off, so they could focus on their enemies in Europe.

I introduced the part about the Kurds to reflect the thread. The problem is many on this board have buried the old communism v. capitalism battle and thrown it on to the scrap heap of history. It is alive and well. Instead of using the phrase "communism" the leftist U.S. media has applied the terms of various religions. This is why the dispute with Turkey and it's history is being distorted. The media wants to paint the Turks as a highly motivated bunch of religious zealots. That nation is so far from that (having been there, I can state that quite accurately) that it's not even funny. The old Franco-German EU bloc has for decades done everything in it's power to block the re-emergence of Turkey as a regional power. They are still in the colonial state of mind and appreciate the ability to buy off leaders and use them throughout the Middle East for their own interests. Now that interest is being threatened by Israel, Turkey and the U.S. But instead of reporting facts, that it is a geopolitical struggle, our media prefers to simplify everything down to the "old religious beliefs" vs. the new world order thing. I'm not preaching to you, I'm trying to wake this board up. If everyone blames Turkey and says we had problems in this war because of Turkey, then they are idiots. This is our problem. Time to clean up the messes of the old USSR and old Europe. Once and for all.

[a_Turk]

Folks, I remember getting a D from an American Professor of History because I vocally challenged him in class after he kept referring to Turkey as an Islamic state.

Let's understand one thing: There is not one standard lesson on history. Each professor has their judgement, and teaches history according to these. Same go for authors of texts.

I do feel that it's going to take at least as long to repair the damage done by propaganda as it took to cause that damage, whether it be in the US, in Arabia, in Pakistan, or in India...

[Beck_isright]

You are quite correct. Fortunately my professors in college, leftist as they were, had actually spent time in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Oman and Egypt. Sadly the propaganda is being generated by the socialist left. And it's been manipulated into "fact" by them to the average uneducated American joe. You're correct about the damage because what do you see on television every night. That's right, the mullahs and radicals, not the mainstream of Turkey. Like I said many, many posts ago or maybe it was another thread, I wonder how many people even have a clue about who Ataturk was and why his story was critical to the history of the world.

[a_Turk]

Look at this fiasco..

[Beck_isright]

You're correct. It's a fiasco and FUBAR. I can not understand the narrow minded thinking of some of the posters. They would rather cast their lot with the Russians and Saudis than a nation founded with democratic roots!!! I can see now why the NEA has won this major victory of the dumbing down of America.

[George W. Bush]

Clinton relied on poll numbers too.

Try to follow your own arguments with some consistency. You argued on the sweetness and American-friendly nature of the Turkish people and made a claim that we had to respect them in pursuing their national destiny. But it is the ordinary people of Turkey who overwhelmingly oppose our involvement. No one pretends anything else. So, under no circumstances are the wishes of the Turkish people going to be respected unless Turkey stays out of the war and we don't base there.

So, I've decided to agree with you. I, too, wish to respect the wishes of the Turkish people and leave Turkey out of the action in Iraq entirely.

Of course, $26 billion for a few weeks rent on their bases and border is kind of a shame to pass up. But if they'd rather deal with any fallout (refugees, economic downturn) from the Iraqi war all by themselves in glorious Islamic unity, well, we must respect the Turkish people's wishes. Naturally, they won't be at the table as victorious allies when we finish off Saddam either so they'll forfeit most of their ability to shape the future of the region.

Too bad really. But as you said, we must respect the wishes of the ordinary people of Turkey and their democratically elected parliament.

[unixfox]

Tuck Furkey !!

[Thud]

I slept on it overnight and heard a still small voice telling me I was being an idiot. You just added a Slap! - "Thanks, I needed that" moment.

[carton253]

You are welcome to disagree with me... Don't have a problem with that at all...

I don't know enough about the Kurdish situation to have an opinion... that's why I didn't bring them up.

As for Turkey... I don't have a problem with Turkey. I spent the better part of yesterday defending them on Free Republic.

As for your assessment of the current situation, I have been saying the same thing for a long time. So, look, we agree about that. There's hope for us.

[liberallarry]

a_Turk is right...at least in part.

From "History of the Jews", Margolis and Marx 1927, page 512;

In no country were the exiles from Spain and Portugal received with greater willingness than in the Ottoman Empire, then on its course of greatest expansion....In these vast domains the Jew could drop the mask of enforced adhesion to a religion which was not his, and be himself again. The Turks demanded of their subjects the surrender neither of their nationality nor their religion. The poll tax, levied on all non-Mohammedans, was not oppressive...

Marx and Margolis were pretty observant and educated fellows and not easy on anti-Semites. Of course, that was 500 years ago and lots of things change in such a long period of time. Still...

[Consort]

If the Turks take Northern Iraq, the threat of ethnic cleansing of the Kurds is a very real possibility.

[Beck_isright]

Any time. We need to watch our backs and believe me, there are 5 groups of soldiers I would want with us in any war:
The Scots, the Ghurkas, the Turks, the Israelis, and the ROK regulars.
Since we can only have two of those with us in this war, I hope our new Clintonized Army is up to the task.

[Beck_isright]

LOL, there's always hope. It's when those ignorant DU tuckus kissers get on that I really get angry.

[Beck_isright]

"If the Turks take Northern Iraq, the threat of ethnic cleansing of the Kurds is a very real possibility."

If the Turks do not take Northern Iraq, the threat of 2 divisions of Iranian Revolutionary guard regulars slaughtering the Turkish population will happen.

[George W. Bush]

If the Turks do not take Northern Iraq, the threat of 2 divisions of Iranian Revolutionary guard regulars slaughtering the Turkish population will happen.

Well, just how many have they slaughtered so far? What will they gain from slaughtering Iraqi Turks unprovoked?

[liberallarry]

The timing of this dispute bothers me.

Either...The Turks are blackmailing us
Or...Some of our people are terribly incompetent

[ScholarWarrior]

Assuming we are in position to beat the Turks there. We are not all powerful. The Turks will have to deal with the repercussions, but we can have no direct role in their support if they act independently.

My suspicion is that they will come around in a day or two.