Posted on 02/19/2003 7:12:17 AM PST by Voronin
Very Saddam like numbers!
Yugoslavia was a souvereign and recognized state. The European Union does not resemble anything even close to a souvereign state and it's ridiculous to campare them. What would have been wrong with a Yugoslav referendum on Yugoslavia's future? All Yugoslav citizens within the borders of the only recognized entity, namely Yugoslavia, could have voted on Yugoslav soil on the future of Yugoslavia. That's democracy and the majority will get it's will. You don't call elections in the US and Germany "Pan American" or "Pan Germanic" don't you? The problem you have with it, is the fact that Serbs made up the largest voting block and thus a vote in favor to dismember Yugoslavia was very unlikely to succeed. That's why Tudman, Izetbegovic and Genscher rejected it as well. Like you do. But at the same time you insist on your "Pan Bosnian" voting model for the electorate in Bosnia.
Look at the 1981 census* for Yugoslavia and see how well your proposition holds up...
| Serbs | 8,140,000 | 36.3% |
| Croats | 4.428,000 | 19.8% |
| Muslims | 2,000,000 | 8.9% |
| Slovenes | 1,754,000 | 7.8% |
| Albanians | 1,730,000 | 7.7% |
| Macedonians | 1,340,000 | 6.0% |
| 'Yugoslavs' | 1,219,000 | 5.4% |
| Montenegrins | 579,000 | 2.6% |
| Hungarians | 427,000 | 1.9% |
| Others | 811,000 | 3.6% |
If you add up all the nationalities who did leave Yugoslavia when given the chance, your pan Yugoslav plebescite doesn't look like such a great idea any more, does it?
The fact of the matter is that all of Yugoslavia did vote, albeit within their own Republics, and they didn't want to be a part of Serboslavia as envisioned by Milosevic. All your talk about democracy is a charade given the stake Milosevic drove through the heart of democratic principle in Yugoslavia when he rescinded the autonomy of Vojvodina and Kosovo while usurping those two votes in the federal government.
* Denitch, Ethnic Nationalism: The Tragic Death of Yugoslavia via Judah.
Are you for preserving a sovereign, independent and strong Yugoslavia, a state of equal citizens, the peoples of Yugoslavia-- Muslims, Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Macedonians, Montenegrins and members of other nations -- living in it?
Just depends on what you ask the people to vote for. Why do you think members of other nations, except the Serbs, wouldn't have approved such a question?
The fact of the matter is that all of Yugoslavia did vote, albeit within their own Republics, and they didn't want to be a part of Serboslavia as envisioned by Milosevic.
The Bosnian Serbs and the Krajina Serbs obviously wanted to stay in Yugoslavia.
And before you start calling people "ethno-bigots", be careful of the stones you choose to throw Mr. I Don't Give a Rat's Ass About the Hundreds of Thousands of Serbs Cleansed from Krajina & Kosovo.
Now, please, elaborate on this "Pan European" nonsense. I'll even make it easy on you and open wide...
AAAAHHHHHHHHH....
Go ahead and shove away.
Well said, DEI.
However, that might have made things difficult for Mr. "Thank God my wife is not a Serb or a Jew" Tudjman and Mr. "Islamic Declarations (or was it Islamic Manifesto?)" Izetbegovic. And we couldn't have that, of course...
When Croatia seceded, it began to murder and expel non-Croats in order to create an ethnically pure state- as already attempted in WWII and finally achieved in 1995. In order to protect themselves from extermination, the Serbs had the legitimate right to establish the RSK and vote for secession.
No. It was the areas that the SDS claimed, regardless of whether Serbs were a majority therein or not.
When the RS declared independence from Bosnia, it did the same thing that Bosnia did to Yugoslavia.
Wrong again - Bosnia didn't start to ethnically cleanse Serbs as the SDS was doing to non-Serbs because it wasn't based upon some whacked out racist worldview which should have been laid to rest after World War 2.
You can't get your facts straight, so your understanding of what happened in the Balkans will suffer accordingly, and that, Bob, is the end of the story.
Just a reminder, though, Bob - you live in my world, the real world, not your little fantasy one. Try to deal with it in a more mature and constructive manner than you are used to displaying in your interactions with me.
Sorry, you lose, you lost, and I'm tired of dealing with losers.
My,my,Parrot I am amazed with your command of Serbo-Croat language!Does it mean that I was always right thinking that you are of Croat orrigin?
No wonder you`re so zealously anti-Serb and so rude with other posters!
And,as far as the rest of you FReepers are concerned,any attempt to debate with this gentlaman should be considered as waist of time.Why are some of you repeating the same mistake all the time???
looks bad for your Bosnian and KLA Jihadists pals......
Oh, you mean just like the newly created state of Bosnia was the area that Izetbegovic claimed, regardless of the wishes of the Serb population NOT to be a part of it? I get it now.
Bosnia didn't start to ethnically cleanse Serbs...
Oh no, Izetbegovic just wanted to sit down and have a picnic with the Serbs, right? Hmmm, then what do you think he meant in his Islamic Declaration, originally written in 1970 and then re-published in 1990, when he said such wonderful things as:
"There can be neither peace nor coexistence between the Islamic faith and non-Islamic social and political institutions."
Or what about...
"...the Islamic movement must and can, take over political power as soon as it is morally and numerically so strong that it can not only destroy the existing non-Islamic power, but also to build up a new Islamic one..."
In what direction did he want to take Bosnia? Hmmm...
"Turkey as an Islamic country used to rule the world. Turkey as an imitation of Europe represents a third-rate country, the like of which there is a hundred in the world."
Gosh, those crazy evil Serbs didn't want to be a part of that. I can't imagine why...
Try that real world on for size, hypocrite.
You're right, brani, I should have learned by now.
Sorry, you lose, you lost, and I'm tired of dealing with losers.
You declared yourself the winner again. Why such a childish behaviour?
This was classic, I have never seen a cornered rat try so hard to claw their way out of a pickle as ferociously as Hoplite. Not ONCE did he directly answer bob808's question, branicap just nailed the coffin lid down with his accurate observation and I think old Hoppalong is all Hopped out! The rat will have to claw his way through that lid now!!!
Hoplite, this is what happens when you're a disingenuous boob!
That is when G----ka told the entire story of how the Croats began marking homes with the Ustasa symbols and literally stoning the Serbian schoolkids enroute to school. Being punched, bruised and bloodied during their walks to school and home. It all stopped when the local Croatians armed and forced out the Serbs. Her brother and father returned to their village outside of Pakrac in 1991 with their Serbian neighbors, but this time, they brought their weapons and were organized. They went their and kicked out the Croats that were Ustase.
Their were Croats that stayed, and they stayed because they did not do anything to their Serbian neighbors accept allowing that cleansing to occur against their Serbian neighbors. Differance is, the Serbs disarmed and confiscated ALL weapons from non-Serbs to further prevent ANY acts of war against anyone else.
Sorry, you lose, you lost, and I'm tired of dealing with losers
I will brake my rule and reply to your post Parrot!
First of all,first refugees in Yugoslav Crissis were the Krajina Serbs that started arriving in Serbia in september 1990!That was 9 months prior to beggining of the war and fighting in Kijevo.You got that,Parrot?
I can also see that you play your usual game:a boxing match in which you`re the fighter and a referee at the same time!?You will decide when the fight is over and who is a winner!?Nice one,mate.
And,you`re tired of dealing with losers...So,why do you keep coming back,like a bad penny?Why don`t you go to bed and have a nice,looooooooooooooong sleep and dream of SuperDupe and his courvacious body!?After all,you two are a soulmates...and we all know what was a favourite Spartan/Greek past time,don`t we,Hoplite?
The Free Republic will be a much better,more intelligent place without you,rest assured.
If you didn`t understand what I am trying to say,I can post in Croatian.
PS.I am worried about you,Parrot:you didn`t mention Mladich& Karadzich for more than a week!Are you OK?
Lepo spavaj,Papagaj!
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