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White House Floats Idea of Dropping Income Tax (altogether)
New York Times, Business and Financial Desk, Page 14, Column 5 ^ | 2/8/2003 | EDMUND L. ANDREWS

Posted on 02/08/2003 5:56:38 PM PST by Bigun

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To: ApesForEvolution
There have been a lot of people put their lives, liberty and treasure at risk to get to the point where the Feds realize the IRS/IRC can not remain viable,

From what I can see, it's just the same old band of liars, tax frauds and cheats looking to mamipulate the tax code to their own advantage.
With Bush, it appears that they've got a puppet who's willing to be bought off.

441 posted on 02/09/2003 5:20:24 PM PST by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: ancient_geezer; Billy_bob_bob
One side of your mouth you say it will help the economy because everyone will have more money to spend, then, out of the other side of your mouth you say

""Live frugally purchase used or do for yourself..." .

It will give you first control of your pay check before government gets any cut. From there it is up to you how you spend or invest your income

You can choose to not pay rent,
you can choose to not have a mortgage,
not buy groceries,
not get a car repair,
not have a car payment (yes, interest payments are subject to a tax),
not buy gasoline,
not get a hair cut,
not have sewer service,
not have water service,
not have garbage service,
not have a telephone,
not have electricity,
not have cable/satellite
not have heating oil/natural gas,
not to dine out,
Not ever have any "service"...
Oh, and when you invest, don't forget the tax on the implicit AND explicit financial intermediation fees.

In other words, you can choose to live the life of a hermit to avoid their exorbitant tax...After all isn't that what we all work and live for?

442 posted on 02/09/2003 5:22:52 PM PST by lewislynn
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To: Bigun
Given Bush's determination to wage war on Islam and force us into the role of an imperial master over the oil-rich middle east, complete with "regime change" and "nation building" that will involve more "mouse that roared" foreign aid socialism, and which will gradually change us into a police state, and a garrison state, waging an endless "war against terrorism" which will only breed more terrorism, forcing us to militarily occupy tens of millions of hostile populations, with a war bill in the billions and a "rebuilding" bill in the trillions....

And, given Bush's taste for big government social welfare solutions, hidden under the "conservative" fig leafs of religious welfare work and federal/state tax money redistribution for various "compassionate conservativism" projects, which have only served to further inflate the budget...

And, given Bush's pandering to the Hispanic vote, including his refusal to protect our borders or to enforce our immigration laws, leading to ballooning welfare roles and social service bills for illegal aliens, and his blatant capitulation to the racial-extortion coalition, and his penchant for white guilt and apparent acceptance of politically correct thinking, Frankfurt School style "anti-authoritarianism" and other forms of cultural Bolshevism, which take as part of their central theme the increasing tax-slavery of the white working and white middle classes as a means of "creating social change"....

And, given Bush's refusal to cut any part of Big Government at all, which he claims to want to merely reform in a "compassionate conservative" direction, rather than to reduce....

And, given Bush's belief that all that is necessary to keep the conservatives in line and to keep the GOP faithful coming to the polls, is to occasionally throw them a bone, such as the occasional token tax cut or the occasional token support of anti-affirmative action legal measures, or the occasional anti-abortion rhetoric, etc....

What, therefore, are the chances that anyone connected with the Bush administration believes this is a serious proposal, versus the chances that it is yet another meaningless, rhetorical piece of red meat thrown into the conservative dog pound, to keep the GOP mutts from yapping all night, and otherwise interrupting Bush's slumber?

And, a tangental question: what are the chances that Freepers will waste their time bashing each other over purely theoretical arguments over tax policy, rather than a thorough and objective appraisal of the current White House and its overal policies and goals?

443 posted on 02/09/2003 5:29:35 PM PST by Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
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To: Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
Wow. Ouch. I do believe you have scored several direct hits here.
444 posted on 02/09/2003 5:39:17 PM PST by Billy_bob_bob ("He who will not reason is a bigot;He who cannot is a fool;He who dares not is a slave." W. Drummond)
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To: Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
And your appraisal is objective?
445 posted on 02/09/2003 5:41:49 PM PST by Principled
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To: Bigun
Thud!

H&R Block just hit the floor and can't get up.

Trajan88; TAMU Class of '88

446 posted on 02/09/2003 5:48:34 PM PST by Trajan88
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To: graycamel; ApesForEvolution

In some ways I guess you're right, as long as the corporate income taxes get eliminated, too. Then their prices would go down.

They are, along with payroll taxes (both individual and corporate) as well.

But I would still like to see all taxes collected by the states and local govts, even if it's sales tax.

Which is what is in the legislation as well:

Mash here >>> [H.R.25 ]
SPONSOR: Rep Linder, John (introduced 01/7/2003)
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.
Refer:
http://www.fairtax.org & http://www.salestax.org


447 posted on 02/09/2003 6:17:23 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: ancient_geezer
Anyone living in LA? The sound of brains exploding must be deafening...
448 posted on 02/09/2003 6:20:25 PM PST by Windcatcher
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To: Billy_bob_bob
Wow is all I have to say at your stupid post.
449 posted on 02/09/2003 6:37:21 PM PST by rwfromkansas (What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever. --- Westminster Catechism Q1)
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To: Principled
In my state we pay a 6% sales tax on most things. If a NRST is added of say 6-10%, how can you say that there will be no added tax burden on me to fund the fed government than would otherwise be? What makes you think that I would pay the same or less in taxes? Explain?
450 posted on 02/09/2003 6:38:36 PM PST by eeriegeno
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To: Gunslingr3
Not with the FairTax: www.fairtaxvolunteer.org
451 posted on 02/09/2003 6:38:52 PM PST by rwfromkansas (What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever. --- Westminster Catechism Q1)
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To: Bigun
Actually........it is H.R. 25 this year.
452 posted on 02/09/2003 6:44:35 PM PST by rwfromkansas (What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever. --- Westminster Catechism Q1)
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To: FreedomCalls
There is no possible way to EVER completely get rid of the chance of it coming back. In the first place, a bill can't include a Constitutional Amendment; it would need to be separate. Second of all, when the Dems get control again, they could simply reinstitute an amendment allowing it if they could get support. Dream a little and worry about controlling them when the time comes.
453 posted on 02/09/2003 6:47:34 PM PST by rwfromkansas (What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever. --- Westminster Catechism Q1)
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To: All
If you support a proposal to axe the income tax and put in place a consumption tax where you CHOOSE how much to send in, call, fax, and e-mail the WH!! Especially the first two. Also, do the House Ways and Means Committee, which has H.R. 25 sitting in there collecting dust. www.whitehouse.gov and www.house.gov
454 posted on 02/09/2003 6:50:59 PM PST by rwfromkansas (What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever. --- Westminster Catechism Q1)
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To: valkyrieanne
education is exempt, at least with the Fairtax.
455 posted on 02/09/2003 6:59:10 PM PST by rwfromkansas (What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever. --- Westminster Catechism Q1)
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To: Paul C. Jesup
I would put a big picture up of him in my car window. I would attempt to not stray into idolatry though........:)
456 posted on 02/09/2003 7:02:24 PM PST by rwfromkansas (What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever. --- Westminster Catechism Q1)
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To: Sabertooth
True, but the amount we pay would become much more apparent and people (if they aren't just docile serfs like I fear) would rise up and demand the taxes belowered, which would require less govt.
457 posted on 02/09/2003 7:04:30 PM PST by rwfromkansas (What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever. --- Westminster Catechism Q1)
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To: eeriegeno

If a NRST is added of say 6-10%, how can you say that there will be no added tax burden on me to fund the fed government than would otherwise be?

1) the NRST is a replacement for current federal taxes individual and corporate.

2) In replacing the federal income and payroll taxes, the costs of complying with those taxes are removed, hence the total burden imposed by government upon the individual through consumption price inflations is lessened.

What makes you think that I would pay the same or less in taxes? Explain?

Because the cost of compliance with the federal tax system is reduced.

 

DO YOU PAY YOUR INCOME TAX
AT THE SUPERMARKET?

by D. Sherman Cox J.D. L.L.M. Taxation

The full impact of the federal tax system(taxes in gross wage/salaries & other compensation + business income/payroll taxes) added onto the base(taxfree) price of retail consumption goods and services is 36% for federal taxes alone.

All wages and the taxes on them are paid for out of sales receipts to business,(i.e. consumption expenditure).

Federal tax revenues collected as % of current family expenditure = fed/(1-state-fed-savings) =

23.5/(1-.235-0.102-0.012) = 36.09%

If we add in the cost of federal tax compliance, planning, litigation & enforcement, the percentage that truely represents the burden on the family due to the Federal income/payroll tax system, product prices are increased by more than 55% over taxfree prices.

Where Have All the Dollars Gone?
How the government robs Peter to pay him back.
By economist James L. Payne, Reason Magazine February '94

When the overhead costs are added together, (24 percent compliance costs, 33 percent disincentive costs, and 8 percent other costs), they total 65 percent of tax revenue.

Current total Federal tax revenues are about $1900billion, more than $1,000 billion additional dollars are added on onto consumption prices due to the business costs of complying with the federal income/payroll tax laws.

(Payne '97, Pilla '95, AGCCA 2000, Williams 2000)

The percent total current federal burden (taxes + compliance costs) of consumption dollars = 36*(1900+1000)/1900 = 54.95% economic burden added on to base retail(i.e. taxfree) prices.

While the economic burden, under the NRST, added on to base retail(i.e. taxfree) prices is less than 30%.

458 posted on 02/09/2003 7:05:39 PM PST by ancient_geezer
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To: lewislynn
oh boy, here we go again.
459 posted on 02/09/2003 7:05:39 PM PST by rwfromkansas (What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever. --- Westminster Catechism Q1)
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To: Dustbunny
Not the FairTax: www.fairtax.org If it would, I would be supporting a flat tax. But, if the FairTax gets in, it would be much better than a flat tax.
460 posted on 02/09/2003 7:07:09 PM PST by rwfromkansas (What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy Him forever. --- Westminster Catechism Q1)
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