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Volunteer Experts Needed For Klamath Sucker Delisting
Klamath Herald & News (Letter to the Editor) ^
| 2/7/02
| James L. Buchal
Posted on 02/07/2003 1:37:12 PM PST by Iconoclast2
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"There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." Henry David Thoreau
To: Iconoclast2
Bump.
2
posted on
02/07/2003 1:40:13 PM PST
by
jimt
To: farmfriend; SierraWasp; madfly
bump
To: Iconoclast2
On May 19, 2002, Bush appointee Steve Williams, Director of the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service
Wasn't Steve Williams the wrestler "Dr. Death?)
4
posted on
02/07/2003 2:14:17 PM PST
by
richardtavor
(Pray for the peace of Jerusalem)
To: Libertarianize the GOP; Grampa Dave; Carry_Okie; forester; marsh2
I don't know any real experts on Klamath suckers! Do any of you flagees?
5
posted on
02/07/2003 4:55:03 PM PST
by
SierraWasp
(Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
To: Iconoclast2
I know some names of consulting icthyologists, but most are experts on anadromous fish. It would take more than a bit of work to unearth an expert on bottom feeders. How desperate are you?
6
posted on
02/07/2003 5:01:22 PM PST
by
Carry_Okie
(The environment is too complex and too important to be managed by politics.)
To: SierraWasp
The Klamath Basin sucker fish are probably like every other sucker fish in the Pacific Northwest. They are not endangered and are a threat to any native fish in the streams where they are predators.
In California many fishers have declared sucker fish as bank fish. That means when you catch them, you stomp their bellies hard on the bank, rip the hook out and stomp their head and leave them on the bank for the predators. I prefer to throw them back in the water to return the nutrients.
They live to eat baby trout, steelhead and salmon. When I really get ticked off at them (when they drive other fish out of hole), I will put on a fly that resembles a baby trout, steelhead or salmon. Then I will become a junkfish serial killer of these worthless fish. I just did this week on the Russian River after two hard days of fishing with no steelhead and just sucker fish. My last hour on the Russian yesterday, I looked like a serial sucker fish killer.
In some streams north of the Klamath Basin, there is a bounty or payment for each dead sucker fish, you catch and kill. I can't see any real difference between these fish and the Klamath Basin Barbara Boxer nosed sucker fish.
7
posted on
02/07/2003 5:06:34 PM PST
by
Grampa Dave
(Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
To: Grampa Dave
"I looked like a serial sucker fish killer."Wull... Good on ya, Grampa!!!
Yoo bedder cut it out, though, er else tham dam fish cops wull hafta open up a noo division called C.S.I. fer SUCKERS!!! (Mrs. Wasper cain't miss wunna them C.S.I. shows!)
8
posted on
02/07/2003 6:16:24 PM PST
by
SierraWasp
(Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
To: sasquatch
bump
To: Iconoclast2; marsh2; dixiechick2000; Helen; Mama_Bear; poet; Grampa Dave; doug from upland; ...
ping
10
posted on
02/07/2003 7:58:08 PM PST
by
farmfriend
( Isaiah 55:10,11)
To: Yellow Rose of Texas
Rose dear, do you have any data for these folks? You did a lot of research into the junk science on this issue. Do you recall any names of some white hats that these folks could contact? All my notes are on my computer in Oregon so I'm not going to be any help here I'm afriad.
11
posted on
02/07/2003 8:10:24 PM PST
by
amom
(* * * STS-107* * * *)
To: Iconoclast2
12
posted on
02/07/2003 8:19:22 PM PST
by
farmfriend
( Isaiah 55:10,11)
To: hubel458
big time ping
13
posted on
02/07/2003 8:22:46 PM PST
by
farmfriend
( Isaiah 55:10,11)
To: amom
I don't know if Rose if freeping again yet. She just had surgery. I did manage to pull up some old threads.
14
posted on
02/07/2003 8:25:48 PM PST
by
farmfriend
( Isaiah 55:10,11)
To: farmfriend
15
posted on
02/07/2003 8:27:31 PM PST
by
farmfriend
( Isaiah 55:10,11)
To: farmfriend
Yes thanks
16
posted on
02/07/2003 8:43:02 PM PST
by
amom
(* * * STS-107* * * *)
To: farmfriend
BTTT!!!!!
17
posted on
02/08/2003 3:08:31 AM PST
by
E.G.C.
To: Grampa Dave
You're sounding like an expert to me. Your little essay (#7 above is the starting point for a sworn declaration. How about it?
Can you expand on this bounty concept? I know there is a bounty on the squawfish (PC name: Northern pikeminnow) on the Columbia River, but I have never heard of one near any streams in the Klamath Basin. Aren't squawfish a lot different than these two suckers?
Why don't you re-post, revise and expand. Maybe others will have helpful comments.
To: Iconoclast2; Archie Bunker on steroids; SierraWasp
All of these sucker fish, squawfish are related and often will destroy the native fish and planted trout/steelhead and salmon smolts.
I know there was/is a bounty on the Columbia River, and I believe that some other waters in Oregon have a bounty on them.
I live in N. California and have noticed that whenever the local squawfish/sucker fish take over fishing holes that have been good for steelhead for decades. The steelhead no longer use those holes for holding or laying their eggs. We are seeing this on the Russian River right now above Healdsbert and below Geyersville.
10 years ago, it was seldom that you caught a squawfish/sucker fish on a fishing fly. Now it is a common everyday occurence from flies that imitate salmon, steelhead and trout eggs as their first menu choice during spawning time for the salmonoid species. That is an indication of how these slimey suckers key in on salmonoid eggs and impact the future of the salmonoids in the streams where there is an abundance.
Then, when baby salmonoids are heading downstream these slimey suckers will key on these baby smolts. This is why I carry the Jansen flies which look like baby trout, steelhead or salmon. When smolts are going down stream, I become a serial killer of the slimey suckers trying to eat all of the baby salmonoids using the Jansen flies. That was what I did this week.
A relative new occurrence has been noted by me and a few other fly fishers. The past couple of years Gray Davis or someone has been really dumping water downstream on the American and Sacramento River and the Trinity last year. I believe that it is to generate power as we have no new power plants. Also, it is an economic boon to the whitewater enviral rats who own canoes, kayaks and pontoon boats. With the high flows, they can often rent the boats twice a day.
During these artificial high water flows, a lot of normal food for all fish gets washed down stream. These slimey sucker fish then key in to the few remaining hatches of flies and in particuliar their nymph stage. I'm seeing less and less brown and green caddis hatches on the American, Sacramento and other rivers/streams as more bugs get washed down stream in these heavy abnormal summer flows. This will have a devastating impact on native trout and salmonoids if their diet of normal river bugs is removed from the rivers by high flow and squaw/sucker fish.
In places where trout or summer steelhead would bang a caddis pupah fly, we are mainly seeing the slimey suckerfish go after this nymph stage of the brown and green caddis flies. Also, you can see them gourging on the hard case caddis flies who form a hard case of the river sands around their bodies to protect them. I have seen hundreds of squaw fish in shallow water moving rocks around to gorge on these cased caddis nymphs. As a result it becomes harder and harder to even find a cased caddis nymph in waters a few years ago that had them all over rocks or on the underside of rocks.
Jim, I'm not an expert, but I notice these trends as I fish. I'm sure that the Klamath Sucker fish eat the eggs and fry of the famous, huge and wonderful Williamson River Red Sided trout that go in and out of Klamath Lake and back up the Williamson in the summer. This pattern will be replicated where other streams and rivers flow into the Klamath Lake. Yet you never hear any Fish and Game official concerned about these fabulous Williamson/Klamath native trout, which may be the biggest stream trout in America, including Alaska. These trout are a real catch and release asset for the economy of Oregon. There is no asset value for the Barbara Boxer Short Nosed Sucker Fish.
19
posted on
02/08/2003 10:32:55 AM PST
by
Grampa Dave
(Stamp out Freepathons! Stop being a Freep Loader! Become a monthly donor!)
To: Grampa Dave
"Jim, I'm not an expert"Bull Crap! Just declare yourself one like all these other self-annointed "EnvironMentalists" and charge in there! If you can't dazzle 'em with your brilliance... Baffle 'em with your B.S.!!! It's done all the time!!! Do it!!! Volunteer and "Reel 'em In," Grampa!!!
20
posted on
02/08/2003 12:11:03 PM PST
by
SierraWasp
(Like, hey man, SHIFT_HAPPENS!!!)
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