Posted on 02/06/2003 11:14:17 PM PST by Life of Brian
There exists a fifth column of Islamofacists in America (and other nations). Some have concrete ties to Al-Qaida and foreign governments while others operate as "lone nuts". The trick is to maintain plausible deniablity in the actions of the fifth columnists so that a retaliatory strike cannot be sent to the nation behind the attacks.
The actions constitute treason when they are directed at America by "citizens" and the punishment is death but so far the captured terrorists have been spared this sentence. The original WTC bombers got life. The shoe bomber got life. The snipers have yet to be sentenced (I don't recall the sentence that the CIA sniper got).
In a "cold war" (the previous "Cold War" against the Soviets has since been called World War III and yes there were battles, confrontations, and even medals) there will be agents working in all concerned countries without uniforms. Here in America there are freedoms that protect beliefs/speech, religious faiths, and rights to due process. Other nations don't necessarily provide all of these protections so the war will be fought on unequal terms. Al-Qaida has it in their handbook to tie up our system during interogation and processing of a captured agent.
We don't want to throw out the Constitution to deal with the threat that we face but those who seek to cause us harm do not play by the rules of war or civilized men. Add to this a lack of willingness to enforce the laws that exist (expell those who are in the country illegally, prohibit illegal entry into this country, background checks, the selling of falsified documents like driver's licenses from DMV/DPS offices, etc.) and we've got a problem.
The Soviets used spies to determine what we knew of them, gain our technological secrets, and aggitate resistance in America. They may have deployed (or attempted to deploy) suitcase nukes but these were more for instant response or to initiate war than just to kill civilians. The suitcases were not the only weapon in the arsenal.
A nation that has 1 nuke may be more dangerous than one with 1,000. And the nations of the world that have nuclear arms try to limit those who may join the "club". To get back to your original point (and the reitterate one of mine): the rougue nations do not play by civilized rules. They are akin to a criminal with a gun; by law he cannot have a gun (although guns in general are permissible) and thus he is an outlaw. As an outlaw he will operate outside the law (and sees no reason to halt at just owning a gun; he may use it to rape or rob innocents).
The criminal has "rights" in that as an accused he is not automatically determined to be "guilty" but he does not have the "right" to do as he pleases. Consider this as we seek to eradicate the fifth column around the world.
It will not require killing to the last man those who harbor these views. In WWII we faced enemies in both the Germans and the Japanese who pledged to fight to the last man. This was not the case and neither poses a threat to our existence today.
Some say that when Saddam is removed from power, that we will need to respect tribal hierarchy, etc. B.S. They need to get onboard that this is the 21st century and not 1500BC. Wipe the slate clean. We are all people. They need to get onboard with the concept of "diversity" and learn to get along. 5 of the 10 richest men in the world are in the Middle East. It bothers me when I hear that the problems in the Middle East are because they are poor and that we must send them more money. There is more than enough money in the region. The people their should have overthrown their own royalty. The anticapitalists who protest at antiBushAmericanWar rallies nevery take their financial protests to the Middle East though.
Minds can be changed but there will need to be transitional governments to get them out of their cycle of violence and ready to join the rest of the world. And they must realize that Anti-Semitism will not be tolerated.
Ya think?
Here's your home work: think it through. War game it out.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Not going to happen.
Well, he was able to slide 8 yrs under clinton. I would give him 2 yrs tops, although I think we could come up reasons prior to that if we really wanted to ;)
After removing Saddam, the United States will be able to set up very effective ground intelligence in the Gulf region, making it much more difficult for Al Qaeda to operate there. Also, the USA will be poised on the border of Iran, making it much more difficult for that country to support terrorism. The same thing with Syria in the West.So, terrorism will suffer a big defeat, along with the criminal regime of Saddam.
With U.S. forces on guard in Iraq, it'll be much more difficult for groups like Hamas and Hezbollah to continue their murderous rampage. And once things calm down in Israel, a truce between the Palestinians and the Israelis becomes much more realistic.
So, there's a huge up side for removing Saddam that has nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction. And that's important to keep in mind. This argument, though, and all others, will not sway people who hate America or President Bush. No matter how the case is made by Colin Powell or anybody else, they'll oppose removing Saddam. But at this point it doesn't matter. Saddam is toast and most nations in the world will provide the butter.
And FYI...
Check out the following lawsuit on Find Law
Ashton, et al. v. al Qaeda, et al.: Complaint (PDF) Lawsuit claiming a 9/11 link between Iraq and al Qaeda. Sept. 3, 2002
The file is in slow loading .pdf format, but it is an interesting read. Some excerpts:
39. Upon information and belief, there have been numerous meetings between IRAQI Intelligence agents and high-ranking AL QAEDA terrorists to plan terror attacks. Once such meeting occurred in 1992, when ZAWAHIRI (EGYPTIAN ISLAMIC JIHAD leader and AL QAEDA officer) met with IRAQI INTELLIGENCE agents in Baghdad, IRAQ over several days. An IRAQI serving with the TALIBAN who fled Afghanistan in the fall of 2001, was captured in Kurdistan and has corroborated this meeting and confirmed that IRAQI contacts with AL QAEDA began in 1992.Also check out the following links:During the early 1990s, Sudan’s Sheikh Hassan al-Tourabi of the Islamic National Front arranged meetings between BIN-LADEN and IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officials. BIN LADEN met with FARUQ AL-HIJAZI, an IRAQI INTELLIGENCE agent in the Sudan who would later head IRAQI INTELLIGENCE for SADDAM HUSSEIN. BIN LADEN again met with IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officers in 1994 and 1995 in the Sudan. At these meetings, BIN-LADEN and IRAQI INTELLIGENCE secret service director FARUQ AL-HIJAZI agreed to work together on terrorist projects directed against the U.S.
55. From 1996 until 2001, BIN LADEN with the financial and logistical support of OMAR and others in the TALIBAN and IRAQ and IRAQI INTELLIGENCE, created, supplied and operated at least five training camps in order to create an “Islamic Foreign Legion” capable of attacking their enemies throughout the world. These camps trained men from 15 nations in guerrilla warfare, terrorist activities, rocket warfare, demolition and bombing, including the use of mines, grenades, TNT, nitroglycerine and plastic explosives. Classes were also given in “how to kill a policeman” and “traps, murder and terrorist moves.”
57. In February 1997, BIN LADEN publicly expressed his support for IRAQ in its conflict with the United States stating:
“The hearts of the Muslims are filled with hatred towards the United States of America and the American president for American conduct towards IRAQ.”59. IRAQ upon information and belief, agreed to supply arms to AL QAEDA and provide AL QAEDA with access to and training in the use of chemical and biological weapons and agreed to instruct AL QAEDA terror trainers at its Salman Pak camp in Baghdad that contained a Boeing 707 used to practice hijacking. IRAQ also agreed to supply AL QAEDA terrorists with new identities and passports from Yemen and the United Arab Emirates.60. AL QAEDA agreed to provide protection from political opponents to IRAQ and SADDAM HUSSEIN, and to commit assassinations and other acts of violence to create instability in regions of IRAQ, particularly Kurdistan, to assist the regime of SADDAM HUSSEIN. AL QAEDA further agreed to provide trained terrorists, assassins and martyrs to carry out terror attacks in concert with IRAQ against their common enemies, including the United States.
64. Between April 25 and May 1, 1998, two of BIN LADEN’s senior military commanders, MUHAMMAD ABU-ISLAM and ABDULLAH QASSIM, visited Baghdad for discussions with SADDAM HUSSEIN’s son -- QUSAY HUSSEIN -- the “czar” of IRAQI INTELLIGENCE.
65. QUSAY HUSSEIN’s participation in those meetings highlights the importance of the talks in both symbolic and practical terms. Upon information and belief, as a direct result of these meetings, IRAQ again made commitments to provide training, intelligence, clandestine Saudi border crossings, financial support and weapons and explosives to AL QAEDA.
66. IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officials met with BIN LADEN in Afghanistan several more times. A second group of BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA operatives from Saudi Arabia were then trained by IRAQI INTELLIGENCE in IRAQ to smuggle weapons and explosives into Saudi Arabia and other countries, which they later accomplished in an effort to carry out future terrorist acts of violence. A third group of BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA operatives received a month of sophisticated guerrilla operations training from IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officials later in the Summer of 1998.
67. Despite philosophical and religious differences with SADDAM HUSSEIN, BIN LADEN continually sought to strengthen and reinforce the support he and AL QAEDA received from IRAQ. In mid-July 1998, BIN LADEN sent Dr. AYMAN AL-ZAWAHIRI, the Egyptian co-founder of AL QAEDA, to IRAQ to meet with senior Iraqi officials, including Iraqi vice president TAHA YASSIN RAMADAN. Upon information and belief, the purpose of this meeting was to discuss and plan a joint strategy for a terrorist campaign against the United States.
69. During the July 1998 visit ZAWAHIRI toured an IRAQI military base and nuclear and chemical weapons facility near al-Fallujah in IRAQ and upon information and belief, observed training by IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officials of AL QAEDA operatives at the al-Nasiriyah military and chemical weapons facility in IRAQ.
79. Following the December 1998 air strikes on IRAQ, SADDAM HUSSEIN dispatched FARUQ AL-HIJAZI to Kandahar, Afghanistan in order to meet with BIN LADEN and plot their revenge.
81. To demonstrate IRAQ’s commitment to BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA, HIJAZI presented BIN LADEN with a pack of blank, official Yemeni passports, supplied to IRAQI INTELLIGENCE from their Yemeni contacts. HIJAZI’s visit to Kandahar was followed by a contingent of IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officials who provided additional training and instruction to BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA operatives in Afghanistan. These Iraqi officials included members of “Unit 999,” a group of elite IRAQI INTELLIGENCE officials who provided advanced sabotage and infiltration training and instruction to AL QAEDA operatives.
82. At that meeting, upon information and belief, BIN LADEN, AL QAEDA and IRAQ agreed to join efforts in a detailed, coordinated plan for a protracted terrorist war against the United States.
84. IRAQ maintains an advanced chemical and biological weapons program and is one of only three countries in the world producing a highly developed weaponized anthrax. Some time during or after 1998, IRAQ agreed to help BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA develop a laboratory in Afghanistan designed to produce anthrax.
85. In addition to the al-Nasiriyah and Salman Pak training camps, by January 1999, BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA operatives were being trained by IRAQI INTELLIGENCE and military officers at other training camps on the outskirts of Baghdad.
86. In January 1999, IRAQ began reorganizing and mobilizing IRAQI INTELLIGENCE front operations throughout Europe in support of BIN LADEN and AL QAEDA. HAQI ISMAIL, believed to be a member of the IRAQ’S MUKHABARAT Secret Service, left IRAQ to train in an Afghanistan AL QAEDA camp. ISMAIL was believed to be a liason between IRAQ, the TALIBAN and AL QAEDA and was rewarded with a position in the TALIBAN Foreign Ministry.
103. On July 21, approximately six weeks before the September 11 th attacks, IRAQI columnist Mulhalhal reported that BIN LADEN was making plans to “demolish the Pentagon after he destroys the White House.”
104. Mulhalhal’s July 21 article further informed that BIN LADEN would strike America “on the arm that is already hurting.” Upon information and belief, this references a second IRAQI sponsored attack on the World Trade Center. This interpretation is further bolstered by another reference to New York as “[BIN LADEN] will curse the memory of Frank Sinatra everytime he hears his songs.” (e.g., “New York, New York”) identifying New York, New York as a target.
105. Mulhalhal further indicated, “The wings of a dove and the bullet are all but one and the same in the heart of a believer.” (Emphasis supplied) This appears to be a reference to the use of commercial aircraft as a weapon. The information was reported in an IRAQI newspaper who’s editor-in-chief serves as secretary to UDAY HUSSEIN’S Iraqi Syndicate of Journalists. The article expressed IRAQI admiration and support for BIN LADEN’s plans and its appearance in the newspaper would clearly have to be endorsed by SADDAM HUSSEIN himself.
106. All IRAQI news media is strictly controlled and censored by the government of SADDAM HUSSEIN and is under the direct oversight of UDAY HUSSEIN. Various members of IRAQI intelligence work at and control the content of each and every newspaper published inside IRAQ.
107. The information contained in Mulhalhal’s published statements were known prior to the events of September 11 th , and that Mulhalhal has ties to IRAQI intelligence, demonstrates foreknowledge of the planned attacks by BIN LADEN and indicates support by IRAQI co-conspirators.
110. According to U.S. and foreign intelligence officials, in the spring of 2000, IRAQI INTELLIGENCE agents met with September 11 th pilot hijackers ZAID SAMIR JARRAH and MARWAN AL-SHEHHI in Dubai, UAE in order to advance the hijacking of U.S. aircraft to commit terrorist acts. Not long after the meeting, AL-SHEHHI entered the United States on May 29 and JARRAH entered on June 27, to begin preparations for attacks.
133. Instruction documents on an artillery weapon known as the “Super Gun” were found in AL QAEDA camps when they were captured by U.S. forces in the winter of 2001-2002. IRAQ is the only state known to have purchased and assembled the super gun, a weapon so large it must be constructed in segments. It has a range of several hundred miles.
Rice: Iraq Providing Shelter, Chemical Weapons Help to Al QaedaAnsar Al-Isam: Iraq’s Al-Qaeda Connection
Salman Pak: Iraq's Smoking Gun Link to 9-11?
Saddam killed Abu Nidal over al-Qa'eda row
New evidence links Saddam, bin Laden
Arafat-Saddam-Bin Laden Links Surface
Saddam and Osama: A Long History
Saddam 'sends troops to help bin Laden men'
Iraqi Funds, Training Fuel Islamic Terror Group
Alert by Saddam points to Iraq - 23 Sep 2001 Article
Mounting Evidence of Iraqi Link to Terror Attacks
Iraqi defector tells of terrorist training camp
You're living in a fantasyland of your own making, but I guess having an entourage - albeit a small one - of similarly deluded hanger-ons makes it all worth it. It must feel good to finally get attention for the first time in your life.
There is no mutual assured destruction, only the assured destruction of Saddam Hussien. The end is coming for him. No nation builds up for an attack the way we have just for a fake out. Bush would be certifiably insane to do so. The balloon is going to go up very soon.
Start with bin Laden," Bush said, "which Americans expect. And then if we succeeed, we've struck a huge blow and can move forward." He called the threat "a cancer" and added, "We don't want to define [it] too broadly for the average man to understand."p. 43
As for Saddam Hussein, the president ended the debate. "I believe Iraq was involved, but I'm not going to strike them now. I don't have the evidence at this point."
Bush said he wanted them to keep working on plans for military action in Iraq but indicated there would be plenty of time to do that. Everything else, though, had to be done soon.
"Start now," the president said. "It's very important to move fast. This is the new way."
p. 99
Rumsfeld raised the possibility that weapons of mass destruction could be used against the United States. "It's an energizer for the American people," he said. "It's a completely different situation from anything we've ever faced before." Should the president address the issue in his speech?
"I left it out," Bush said flatly. "It could overwhelm the whole speech. At some point we have to brief the nation, absolutely. But I took it out. It's going to stay out. I thought long and hard about it."
Bush, clearly fearful of alarming people just nine days after the shocking attacks, said they would address it later, perhaps when they had better information.
"Do it in the context of an overall strategy," he said. "Need to be sure. Need to be honest," he added, "but I don't know about being brutally honest."
p. 106
"I'm worried about the BW threat, Cheney said, biological warfare.
Several of those present wondered if the vice president knew something, or if he had connected things they had missed. He was a thorough reader of intelligence reports and connector of dots. But there seemed to be nothing specific.
p. 166
"Many believe Saddam is involved," [Bush] said. "That's not an issue for now. If we catch him being involved, we'll act. He probably was behind this in the end."
p. 167
They turned to the hot topic of anthrax. The powder in the letter mailed to Senator Daschle's office had been found to be potent, prompting officials to suggest its source was likely an expert capable of producing the bacteria in large amounts. Tenet said, "I think it's AQ" -- meaning al Qaeda. "I think there's a state sponsor involved. It's too well thought out, the powder's too well refined. It might be Iraq, it might be Russia, it might be a renegade scientist," perhaps from Iraq or Russia.
Scooter Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, said he also thought the anthrax attacks were state sponsored. "We've got to be careful on what we say." It was important not to lay it on anyone now. "If we say it's al Qaeda, a state sponsor may feel safe and then hit us thinking they will have a bye because we'll blame it on al Qaeda."
"I'm not going to talk about a state sponsor," Tenet assured them.
"It's good that we don't," said Cheney, "because we're not ready to do anything about it."
p. 244
As we walked back, Bush again brought up Iraq. His blueprint or model for decision making in any war against Iraq, he told me, could be found in the story I was attempting to tell--the first months of the war in Afghanistan and the largely invisible CIA covert war against terrorism worldwide.
"You have the story," he said. Look hard at what you've got, he seemed to be saying. It was all there if it was pieced together--what he had learned, how he had settled into the presidency, his focus on larger goals, how he made decisions, why he provoked his war cabinet and pressured people for action.
I was straining to understand the meaning of this. At first his remark and what he had said before seemed to suggest he was leaning towards an attack on Iraq. Earlier in the interview, however, he had said, "I'm the kind of person that wants to make sure that all risk is assessed. But a president is constantly analyzing, making decisions based upon risk, particularly in war--risk taken relative to what can be achieved." What he wanted to achieve seemed clear. He wanted Saddam out.
Before he got back to his truck, Bush added another piece to the Iraqi puzzle. He had not yet seen a successful plan for Iraq, he said. He had to be careful and patient.
"A president, he added, "likes to have a military plan that will be successful."
p. 343
Cheney was beyond hell-bent for action against Saddam. It was as if nothing else existed.
p. 346
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