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Professor's Snub of Creationists Prompts U.S. Inquiry
New York Times ^ | 2/02/03 | NICK MADIGAN

Posted on 02/03/2003 3:53:13 AM PST by kattracks

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To: PatrickHenry
Hm. Somewhat impressive. Happen to know what is theorized as to the frequency of species to species transitions? (How many, per million years, for example?)

There are many theories, from many good minds, of how the universe has gotten to exactly where it all is.

There are also many kinds of bigots.
721 posted on 02/04/2003 7:45:23 PM PST by unspun (Is that a fistula, or are you just happy to see that tree?)
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To: Dinsdale
Would you also agree that someone who approaches the evolution debate with the 'that settles it' attitude SHOULD be dismissed as unscientific?

Yes... but anyone who is attempting to enlighten another should find ways to help them sharpen their arguments. That's the best way for them to find the holes in them. Not always easy to do however... and not many people on either side are open to it.

I've always understood that evolution, although the odds are astronomical, given enough time and *given* life being in existence already, is possible.

The problem I have is that life is not self-existent. Intellect/personality/spirit may be... but not physical life. And evolution doesn't explain that any more scientifically than creationism does.

722 posted on 02/04/2003 7:45:28 PM PST by Terriergal ("DU is the biggest source of HATESPEECH on the internet today")
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To: RadioAstronomer
If not, why is there this push to make the Bible scientific dogma?

Who's trying to make the Bible scientific dogma? There are those who look at scientific discoveries to support Biblical accounts. That's all. And mostly that is done in response to evolutionists demanding proof that the Bible is a reliable account before they will believe anything about it.

723 posted on 02/04/2003 7:48:03 PM PST by Terriergal ("DU is the biggest source of HATESPEECH on the internet today")
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To: PatrickHenry
nice link to the transitional species argument. how about transitional organs, organelles, cellular structures. If you have any inkling of biochemistry, you soon realize that *all* parts must be present in a machine, with no room for error, for any of them to function. Machines cannot rise into existence on their own strength.
724 posted on 02/04/2003 7:50:45 PM PST by Terriergal ("DU is the biggest source of HATESPEECH on the internet today")
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To: shaggy eel
Ever see "The French Connection"? We coulda used Popeye Doyle in that neighborhood ;)


725 posted on 02/04/2003 7:52:22 PM PST by general_re (If God had wanted you to go around nude, He would have given you bigger hands.)
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To: RadioAstronomer
1) Why would this interpretation be necessary for a divinely inspired book? 2) Would you accept this in a scientific paper?

I would. It shows the different personalities/intended audiences of the writers. Inspiration does not equal "channeling."

726 posted on 02/04/2003 7:53:38 PM PST by Terriergal ("DU is the biggest source of HATESPEECH on the internet today")
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To: Under the Radar
You contradict yourself. If you are convinced that scientific = atheist,

Do not put words in my mouth. I have never said that scientific = atheist. I have said that evolution is not science, it is bunk, it is pseudo-science, it is rhetoric, but it is not science. And yes evolution is both materialistic and atheistic - science is not. Evolution has nothing to do with science and everything to do with atheism - as this 'professor' Dini abundantly shows.

727 posted on 02/04/2003 7:54:26 PM PST by gore3000
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To: Nebullis
The court would have to conclude that the relevancy of evolution to biology is a reasonable test for writing a letter.

And it is not relevant because evolution is not science no matter how many times evolutionists repeat that mantra.

728 posted on 02/04/2003 7:57:36 PM PST by gore3000
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To: Under the Radar
Why was the guy being a jackass?

No, the man is not being a jackass, he is abusing his power. He has not been appointed God, he is just a teacher, there to teach students a subject. He is a very bad teacher because he is an ideologue atheist. He is a very bad scientist because he has a completely closed mind. As I have said before he does not belong in front of a class.

729 posted on 02/04/2003 8:00:04 PM PST by gore3000
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To: Terriergal
If you have any inkling of biochemistry, you soon realize that *all* parts must be present in a machine

Only for the most simple cells. Additional functionallity can evolve for single celled organisms just as for higher forms.

It is an unanswered question. The answers available are faith or guesswork and are presented as such (I recall these discussions from Jr Highschool, arguements got heated). Once the science of evolving life forms is taught and understood you get back to were life started. It is appropriate to discuss philosophy with the kids including God at this point. Just not specific beliefs about God. If you want to teach the Christian creation myth you should also teach the Norse creation myth (Loki drank with Oden, earth is Odens puke, the land is chunks).

730 posted on 02/04/2003 8:02:37 PM PST by Dinsdale
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To: Physicist
The overwhelming majority of people who accept evolution also believe in a creator. Evolution does not demand that there be no God,

You certainly cannot speak for yourself on the subject. Why do you and other atheists fight so hard over a theory????? I do not see any fights here over relativity, over gravity, or over hundreds of other theories out there. No the only one that gathers heated debate from atheists is the theory of evolution. Why is that? The only one that splits the debate amongst the religious and the atheists is the theory of evolution - why is that?

For a very simple reason - evolution is purposely atheistic:

Now a third one of Darwin's great contributions was that he replaced theological, or supernatural, science with secular science. Laplace, of course, had already done this some 50 years earlier when he explained the whole world to Napoleon. After his explanation, Napoleon replied, "where is God in your theory?" And Laplace answered, "I don't need that hypothesis." Darwin's explanation that all things have a natural cause made the belief in a creatively superior mind quite unnecessary. He created a secular world, more so than anyone before him. Certainly many forces were verging in that same direction, but Darwin's work was the crashing arrival of this idea and from that point on, the secular viewpoint of the world became virtually universal.
Ernst Mayr - What Evolution Is - Edge Magazine 10/31/01

731 posted on 02/04/2003 8:08:19 PM PST by gore3000
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To: Right Wing Professor
Dini is a Catholic, according to the press

'according to the press'. Well, I think that is more than enough evidence that he is an atheist then! Has anyone ever seen him going to Church? (before the suit was filed). Clearly, the same folk that covered up for Clinton are making up stuff for this weasel.

732 posted on 02/04/2003 8:14:06 PM PST by gore3000
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To: Terriergal
I would. It shows the different personalities/intended audiences of the writers. Inspiration does not equal "channeling."

For a novel, yes. For a scientific paper, No!

733 posted on 02/04/2003 8:18:19 PM PST by RadioAstronomer
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To: Physicist
You certainly cannot speak for yourself on the subject.

Yeah! Shut up and let Gore do the talking for both of you!

Sheesh... ;)

734 posted on 02/04/2003 8:20:13 PM PST by general_re (If God had wanted you to go around nude, He would have given you bigger hands.)
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To: general_re
Personally, I'm developing an affinity for the notion of dismissing the case as unripe because Spradling failed to exhaust his available institutional remedies. He never met with Dini, never asked for a meeting with the department chair, never asked for a meeting with the dean of the appropriate school within the university, never requested a meeting with the dean of academic affairs - he just looked at the policy and bailed...

Not to mention that he NEVER took the course, which is a prerequisite to getting a recommendation!

This case isn't just "not ripe" it isn't even fertilized, except by the bombast issed by the Legal foundation that is handling the student's case. No doubt they will now be able to make great hay out of all the free publicity surrounding this stunt in their future fund raising letters......

735 posted on 02/04/2003 8:22:07 PM PST by longshadow
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To: longshadow
...their future fund raising letters......

Pop quiz: A __________ and his __________ soon are parted ;)

736 posted on 02/04/2003 8:23:50 PM PST by general_re (If God had wanted you to go around nude, He would have given you bigger hands.)
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To: RadioAstronomer
If one observer noticed somethig another observer didn't why wouldn't it be included in a paper?
737 posted on 02/04/2003 8:24:17 PM PST by Terriergal ("DU is the biggest source of HATESPEECH on the internet today")
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To: PatrickHenry
Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ.

More garbage from TalkOrigins, the fountain of scientific disinformation. Since you claim to be so smart (although the only thing I see from you is TO links and placemarkers), perhaps you can tell us how the following species evolved their unique functions:



738 posted on 02/04/2003 8:28:51 PM PST by gore3000
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To: RadioAstronomer
You know this for a fact?

Yes, that is a fact. There is nothing in the Christian religion that forbids anyone from giving antibiotics. You are just showing your atheism with garbage excuses. Why don't you and your friends give proof of the garbage you keep repeating that evolution is science? What are these obvious facts that make it impossible for someone to be a doctor unless he kneels before the church of your maggot infested hero?

739 posted on 02/04/2003 8:32:36 PM PST by gore3000
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To: Terriergal
If one observer noticed somethig another observer didn't why wouldn't it be included in a paper?

1) If the two observers were working together, they would resolve the different observations before publication.

2) If they were not working together, they would independently publish their findings and the scientific community would debate the issues including the differences.

3) In either of the 1st two cases the observations should be testable and repeatable to validate the observation.

The Bible is not scientific.

740 posted on 02/04/2003 8:35:45 PM PST by RadioAstronomer
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