Front-line troops disproportionately white, not black

USATODAY ^ | 1-21-2003 | Dave Moniz and Tom Squitieri

[elfman2]

”We are all green and all Marines. ”

On the parade ground as a new PFC managing a transient platoon of washed out recruits, I was discretely called over by a passing DI who overheard me referring to on as a “dark green Marine” LOL! He advised me to lose that phrase. It was cool, I didn’t know any better, just repeating what my DIs used to say.

[Ditto]

When Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., called recently for the return of a military draft, he evoked images of inequality raised during the early years of the Vietnam War, when black soldiers died at rates much greater than their share of the U.S. population.

That was not true either. In Vietnam, black combat deaths were within a fraction of their percent of the population. USA Today needs to read "Stolen Valor" by Burkett which dispels many of the leftist generated myths about the war.

[Redbob]

"In a little-publicized trend, black recruits have gravitated toward non-combat jobs..."

Little publicized perhaps because Whites don't have the whining racist poverty pimps to parade on the Sunday talk shows and Larry King!

[Destro]

Why is it holy cowish? I guess we can go to war now, sonce only po' white trash will die >sarcasm</

[Destro]

There is no money in poor white trash advocacy.

[Destro]

I don't know what those statistics are supposed to prove other than poor whites get the brunt of it? I mean when we start getting into statistics like this does it mean poor Whites should be angry they are used as canon fodder more so than other groups? Its the trap of race statistics.

[Britton J Wingfield]

Charles Moskos has written a lot of good material on race in the US military. He co-wrote "All That We Can Be," which is a great little book on the subject. Basically he argues that the US Army destroyed Jim Crow, and is the single most effectively integrated society in the world.

The book I mentioned had a neat survey of both soldiers and univesity students from a notoriously liberal university. The soldiers of all races polled as being far more conservative on all issues, and also as having better relations between racial groups. So much for the 'conservatives are racist' arguement.

[kabar]

The statistics provide the lie to the leftists' contention that the minorities suffered disproportionately in terms of combat casualties in Vietnam. The statistics also show that Vietnam was not an anomaly in terms of the education and socio-economic status of the participants in other wars. It is also no secret that the sons and daughters of the rich and powerful are under-represented in the military--not to mention law enforcement and other dangerous occupations. The more options people have, the less likely they will choose these careers. That will never change, even with a draft.

Whether "poor Whites should be angry they are used as canon (sic) fodder more so than other groups" is another question, which I was not addressing in my post. I am not an advocate of pitting one group against another. The race baiters want you to believe that is the poor minorities that are bearing the burden of combat and military service. Not so and the statistics prove it.

[Destro]

My point was racial statistics can become a trap if you use them.

If you use them to disprove a point, what is the point you did prove? and you in using statistical data you automaticaly conclude that one set of data proves a wrong (is it wrong that more Blacks are in the military? is it wrong less upperclass WASPS are in the military? Are minorities "smarter" for seeking and gaining non combat jobs in the military while Whites have to be less smart for dominating the fighting corps?, etc.-see the problem?)

[HaveGunWillTravel]

If there are more blacks than whites in the military, the country is racist. If there are more whites than blacks in the military, the military is racist.

[BeAllYouCanBe]

"The soldiers of all races polled as being far more conservative on all issues,[snip]

My son graduated from Army infantry basic 5 years ago (currently in Kuwait) and in his platoon there was every kinda American ever -- blacks, mixed, hispanic, etc.. They got to go home for Christmas and the Hawiian kid (Japanese and native Hawiian) couldn't afford to go. Everyone took up a collection to pay the $800 needed for his ticket it was touching. I saw the statistics at Benning Infantry school and there are very few blacks in infantry. The soldiers that graduated infantry school and got to wear the blue infantry braid were just soldiers and proud!

But when I was in the Army 1969 there were a lot of blacks in the combat engineers. The training to operate heavy equipment was a big attraction.

[shamusotoole]

Just an annecdote to add to your Vietnam facts....

In the early days of our involvement, the Press Corps was generally favorable to US efforts, but that quickly changed. They began to interview enlisted GIs often just back from missions to get whining and negativity.

One day they turned their cameras on a Black Marine Gunney. He was a hardened, lifer, 'Robin Olds' looking guy. When the sniveling, lefty reporter asked him about discrimination in the Corps, he first paused thoughtfully and for effect, and said, "Mister, in the Marine Corps they treat everybody like he was a ('N' word)."

Wherever that Gunney is today, I wish him fair winds and good fortune. He really shut that mealie mouth up, and put me in awe.

[chasio649]

How many asians are presently in the military?

[semaj]

"The reasons for the racial divide are unclear, but several theories have emerged, including lingering racism in some quarters of the military",

This is the main reason you don't see too many blacks in SpecOps or Line Units. As for Combat Pilot positions, it's simply a question of qualified education and ability.

[Jimmy Valentine's brother]

They need to stuff this racial crap where the sun don't shine and quit trying to divide us.

Another extremist voices his opinion. I refer of course to the Clinton era when Marines were called extremist by a female Undersecretary of the Army. Her name escapes me.

E PLURIBUS UNUM

[kabar]

The point of using these statistics is to disprove an incorrect assertion. The reality is that these statistics do exist, however distasteful it is that we continue to measure and classify things by race. Personally, I have some real problems continuing to use them, especially for African-Americans and the one drop of blood business, which classifies them as a single race. It is the Left that wants this to continue since so many benefits and allocation of resources depend on such measurements.

You can analyze and read into the statistics whatever you want. I am not adding value judgments to the objective facts provided. I don't believe I am falling into some sort of trap by providing these statistics. How else do you respond to the Rangels of the world who continue to spout lies and untruths?

[Britton J Wingfield]

But when I was in the Army 1969 there were a lot of blacks in the combat engineers.

I see few in the Seabees, but served with many in the fleet.

Kudos to those grunts who bought their buddy a plane ticket! That's the sort of camaraderie that I love about the military.

[Destro]

Rangel made some good points not withstanding. As a classicist, I would note that Athenians considered it the only important requirement of citizenship being that ability to take your place in combat (panoply supplied from your own expenses). Just because Rangel was not 100% accurate on the race percentage does not mean he did not make a good point on making you think just on who the burden of service falls to (to be honest, I also thought wrongly that minorities were overrepresented before these statistics).

The draft is not the solution of course. There is only one solution IMHO and that is for the voters to elect only representatives (this is a republic after all-we are supposed to elect "wise men" to reduce our mobbish tendencies) with military service as part of their background. This way when they do vote for war they would know of its pain and suffering. Of course guard and reserve service are perfectly acceptable criteria. So Cheney would be out but Bush would be fine. This sort of voting policy should be something the voters take into consideration themselves. My idea is not perfect but it is a more decent compromise . I am uncomfortable with "hawks" who have not experianced even the potential for combat (as reservists and guardsmen face) or have relations in that position.

From now on I will only vote for active duty or reserve/guards veterans for govenor/congress/senate/presidency then decide on the issues. In addition I will urge the republican party to only put forward candidates who are active duty or reserve/guards veterans for national office and for governor ships.

[arm958]

I did not see it that the author was twisting anything. The facts were there and that is the salient fact. Rangel and the rest were making a race issue out of it, the author is merely stating the obvious.

That "lingering racism" B.S. in the last line of the article tells me all I need to know about the author.

[VOA]

bump