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Condoleezza Rice Partly at Odds with Bush on Race Case...
Reuters ^

Posted on 01/17/2003 2:50:33 PM PST by RCW2001

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To: RCW2001
Compare this article/headling with that from The Washington Post:
National security adviser Condoleezza Rice took a rare central role in a domestic debate within the White House and helped persuade President Bush to publicly condemn race-conscious admissions policies at the University of Michigan, administration officials said yesterday.

21 posted on 01/17/2003 3:37:48 PM PST by KayEyeDoubleDee (const vector<tags>& obsoleteTags)
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To: Redleg Duke
Just watch the "Civil Rights Leadership" start demanding that Ms. Rice resign or be an "Uncle Tom".

Your sentiments(which I share) contrast sharply with other posters who seem to think she (and Bush) have betrayed the conservative cause.

22 posted on 01/17/2003 3:40:13 PM PST by KayEyeDoubleDee (const vector<tags>& obsoleteTags)
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To: Redleg Duke
If we get vouchers in place so motivated kids can get out of failing schools, there will quickly be little or no need for any special consideration for minorities.

The minority kids in my kids' private school do just as well and sometimes better than the white kids. It's time to stop giving any child permission to perform below their ability, just because of melanin level or racial heritage.
23 posted on 01/17/2003 3:40:22 PM PST by ChemistCat (...I am too busy to be insecure.)
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To: RCW2001

This is just yer typical Democrat reporter playing "gotcha" with Bush. It wouldn't surprise me if Rice herself lets it be known that this story is not be believed as written.


24 posted on 01/17/2003 3:41:20 PM PST by Nick Danger (Light fuse, step away, do not hold in hand)
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To: ApesForEvolution

Okay, now before you go running off half-cocked, that's not what she said.

This story was taken from a story written by Ron Fournier. That should tell you something. Even so, if you look at the story, you find that Rice objected to Michigan's bogus point system and agreed with the President that the Wolverines were out of line. She is simply saying that in the real world, race can be considered, but not as a deciding factor.

Look at her record at Stanford. She considered qualifications (did you get your Ph.D at Chicago or at the Univeristy of Grand Cayman...), publishing performance, teaching performance, etc., primarily when doing hiring. Race was not a primary consideration to her when hiring faculty, so I think her record is on solid ground.

Except for hiring the football coach. She forbade the coach from running the Wishbone because Stanford didn't have the bodies to do it.

She is on record as being opposed to quotas, but that does not mean that one cannot consider the race of an individual as a factor. In the real world, that's part of what happens. That's unfair? Yes. Suppose a college believes that it needs more minority enrollment. It can go out and hunt for more black, Hispanic, and Asian students. That's the right of the college. What Bush is trying to do, and I believe that Rice agrees with him on this, is to put the nail in the coffin of the quota system.

BTW, I have a reason as to why the brief was narrowly written. DO NOT try to get out in front of the SCOTUS, especially when Scalia will run riot all over the courtroom, spanking Michigan's Lawyers so hard they'll curse their mother's for having given them birth. If Bush writes it narrow, and the Court goes Broad, Bush wins. If Bush goes broad and the Court writes a narrow opinion, the Chattering Classes write that SCOTUS smacked down Bush.

Bush has positioned himself nicely by tackling Michigan's methods, not opening a broad front against AA altogether. Salami tactics, people, salami tactics.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

25 posted on 01/17/2003 3:44:18 PM PST by section9 (Ronald Must Die...)
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To: Nick Danger
Here is Condi statement released this afternoon:

The White House, President George W. Bush

For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
January 17, 2003

Statement by the National Security Advisor Dr. Condoleezza Rice

When the President decided to submit an amicus brief, he asked for my view on how diversity can be best achieved on university campuses. I offered my view, drawing on my experience in academia and as provost of a major university. I agree with the President's position, which emphasizes the need for diversity and recognizes the continued legacy of racial prejudice, and the need to fight it. The President challenged universities to develop ways to diversify their populations fully. I believe that while race neutral means are preferable, it is appropriate to use race as one factor among others in achieving a diverse student body.

# # #


Return to this article at:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030117-1.html
26 posted on 01/17/2003 3:47:30 PM PST by RCW2001
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To: LS
I don't support racial "quotas" of any sort. But do we not have "quotas" right now for sports---X number of slots go to athletes? And of those, X number go to females? And does the music program not have X number of scholarships?

But none of this is based upon race. Don't you see the difference?

27 posted on 01/17/2003 3:55:14 PM PST by G-Bob
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We white folks need a quota system in the NBA and NFL !
28 posted on 01/17/2003 3:56:34 PM PST by sushiman
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To: RCW2001
I believe that while race neutral means are preferable, it is appropriate to use race as one factor among others in achieving a diverse student body.

This is disagreeing with the Prez in the most gentle way possible.

29 posted on 01/17/2003 3:58:13 PM PST by Diverdogz
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To: Redleg Duke
They already consider her to be an "Auntie Tom", or a "house slave."
30 posted on 01/17/2003 3:58:57 PM PST by My2Cents ("...The bombing begins in 5 minutes.")
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To: RCW2001; MarkM; ApesForEvolution; Nick Danger
This article says the exact opposite of the account given by the Washington Post. See as follows:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3752-2003Jan16.html

Rice Helped Shape Bush Decision on Admissions

By Mike Allen and Charles Lane Washington Post Staff Writers

Friday, January 17, 2003; Page A01

National security adviser Condoleezza Rice took a rare central role in a domestic debate within the White House and helped persuade President Bush to publicly condemn race-conscious admissions policies at the University of Michigan, administration officials said yesterday.

The officials said Rice, in a series of lengthy one-on-one meetings with Bush, drew on her experience as provost at Stanford University to help convince him that favoring minorities was not an effective way of improving diversity on college campuses.

Rice, the first female national security adviser, told Bush that she worked to increase the number of African American faculty members at Stanford but that she was "absolutely opposed to quotas," a senior administration official said. A Stanford official said that under Rice, who served from 1993 to 1999 and was the university's first nonwhite provost, the number of black faculty members increased from 36 to 44.

Officials described Rice as one of the prime movers behind Bush's announcement on Wednesday that he would urge the Supreme Court to strike down Michigan's affirmative action program.

31 posted on 01/17/2003 4:02:41 PM PST by marron
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To: CounterCounterCulture
I do not think there is a disconnect here at all. I would like to list some ways considering a persons race can help build the diversity of an institution without quotas. For purposes of the argument, I will be using the typical politically correct language.

1. Recruiting. Actively seek out diverse applicants. In other words send extra recruiting materials to racially diverse high schools etc. Get more to apply and more will get in, even if race is not considered in admissions.

2. Support. Colleges often offer high schools assistance, not money, but programs, like letting seniors take classes, tutoring, or tours, or orientation. Actively targeting diverse populations with these programs would not be a quota.

3. Publicizing success. Highlighting racially diverse success amongst students and faculty in press and packets. Actively put role models out.

4. Research. Encourage research towards diverse issue. Not in the political science, or history department either. Have the leading sickle cell anemia research department, and you may attract more diverse students and faculty.

These are all fair in my mind, and don't violate the constitution. I hope you get my point.

Of course take the public out of education and these problems evaporate... ;)

The amazing thing here is how the media has managed to spin this as a disagreement. The CBS Radio news bumb is especially offensive. Actually says there is a split in the administrations policy on affirmative action. Never mentions Rice's role in informing the Presidents decisions, just says she disagrees. That is IMHO putting words in Rices' mouth.


lates
32 posted on 01/17/2003 4:13:12 PM PST by jrawk
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To: Howlin
How long does it take you to find all these article that bash Bush?

I don't think this bashes Bush at all. I applaude his statement in general, though I do not like his embrace of 'diversity'. Why do you think this is a Bush-basher article?

33 posted on 01/17/2003 4:15:45 PM PST by RJCogburn (Yes, it's bold talk......)
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To: section9
Chris, wasn't the original suit brought by two individuals wishing to enter the Law School? And isn't that a bit above the entry level at Michigan? ... So why the fuss addressing this as entry status for the undergrad university? ... I must have missed something.

Royal Marshall (sitting in for Bortz today) pointed out quite rightly that the top university has a right to set their qualifying standards as they see fit and that the students accepted should still have to make the grades rather than be handed an empty diploma. (He dodged the issue of athletes being handed entry and four years of support without having to actually maintain grades, BTW. He was very articulate and entertaining today.) I would think that by the time students are applying to enter the Law School or Med School, merit alone should prevail. Setting quotas based on race, when the upper level Schools are applied to is a sure-fire way to lower the quality of the Schools, much less the professions.

34 posted on 01/17/2003 4:49:02 PM PST by MHGinTN (If race gives points, what does a non-black have to bring for equality in the points game?)
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To: MHGinTN

Yeah, but of course.

However, I predict that the outcome of this case will apply to broad college admissions, once the Court has ruled.

Colleges have a right to set policy, but the balance that must be struck is that of the Equal Protection clause, iirc.

Condi was saying that race can be a consideration. What has occured, however, is that race has metastasized into a primary consideration, thus, left out Whites and Asians.

Now then, if the Whites and the Asians don't make the grade, then your point is valid to the degree of being axiomatic.

Be Seeing You,

Chris

35 posted on 01/17/2003 6:14:04 PM PST by section9 (Ronald Must Die...)
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To: RCW2001
"He is saying the manner in which the University of Michigan, by giving students 20 points on the basis of the color of their skin..."

Anyone with an ounce of fairness in their being could never agree to the University of Michigan's blatant discrimination. Effectively, this school is TAKING 20 POINTS AWAY FROM NON MINORITY STUDENTS!!! Let's call it like it is, folks.

Think about it. The EXACT SAME RESULT is achieved if 20 points is taken AWAY from non minority students. Ask yourself why they pad the minority scores rather than take points away from students who aren't the "right" skin color. I find it shocking and amazing that conservatives haven't banned together to use these facts as talking points!!! It bears repeating by everyone who sees the injustice.
36 posted on 01/17/2003 6:32:53 PM PST by demkicker
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To: RCW2001
Condi says, "it is appropriate to use race as one factor among others in achieving a diverse student body".

OK, I know Condi means well, and I respect her opinion. But isn't this just like like saying,"I'll only discriminate a little bit."

If you have a policy like: We will admit the top 10% of every graduating class you can achieve diversity without discriminating based on race or even taking race into account in any way.
37 posted on 01/17/2003 6:50:31 PM PST by MarkM
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To: Cicero
As usual, Reuters is trying to exploit a hairline crack to try to divide the Republicans. What Rice says is perfectly reasonable.

They (among ever other news source) do this with Powell all the time. But I have a feeling if it was Powell who had made a public statement in disagreement with the President that a good many Republicans/Conservatives would be asking for his resignation. Wonder if we'll see the same with Rice.

38 posted on 01/17/2003 6:53:22 PM PST by ejdrapes
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To: RLK
Condoleezza Rice:

"it is appropriate to use race as one factor among others in achieving a diverse student body."

Saying there were circumstances"in which it is necessary to consider race as a factor among many factors"

39 posted on 01/17/2003 7:52:10 PM PST by Uncle Bill
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To: MarkM
yes, and in a broader sense, and in the context of our nation's position as the World's most advanced Hi-Tech nation, isn't this affirmative action going to erode our lead in Hi-Tech worldwide ? and it's because we are producing half-baked engineers, not the world-class types

If our universites do not practise MERITOCRACY, in Hi-Tech ,then, we may lose out to our rivals, ie Japan, Europe, China etc
40 posted on 01/17/2003 8:02:27 PM PST by The Pheonix
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