Teen Drug Use Associated With Psychiatric Disorders Later In Life

Science Daily ^ | 2003-01-15 | NIH/National Institute On Drug Abuse

[The Old Hoosier]

Oh really? Do libertarians support the war on crack?

[spodbox]

No

[LibTeeth]

Not at all. You don't see the crackheads robbing police officers do you? (Other than undercover officers posing as their own kind perhaps). It's called deterrence. It's why Washington, DC and other victim disarmament zones have high crime, and right to carry states with preemption over cities have low crime. By definition, libertarians are against central planning, so this isn't a plan by any means. You'd be free to stay disarmed and derive the free-rider benefits of the criminals not knowing who can respond and who can't.

As an aside, if the welfare state were ended, we'd have plenty of cheap domestic labor pool and wouldn't need to attract illegal immigration either to suck off us, or "take" entry level jobs. The underclasses wouldn't like their lot and would have an incentive to seek out real educational opportunity instead of courses on self esteem. Families might find reasons to stay together for their mutual benefit rather than the current 'do your own thing' tendency for individuals to strike out on their own across the social(ist) safety net that coddles misfits and the lazy.

There are two general models of politics and social life: self control or external control. When life is allowed to provide correcting feedback, the self control model reduces substance abuse a lot faster than the external control methods. Drug abuse isn't about drugs, it's about choices. Our current social institutions all breed dependent personalities where chemical dependency is but one small aspect of the problem. Blaming drugs is a materialistic world view, like blaming poverty on the environment.

Your strawmen don't hold up.

[jammer]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc reasoning. Be careful not to misconstrue cause and effect. That's why real studies aren't retrospective like this, but are prospective, randomized, and double-blind.

[jammer]

In your profile, you talk about the supremacy over the Constitution over libertarianism. How do you reconcile the WOD with the 10th Amendment? Until you back up the WOD with a Constitutional Amendment, please don't mention your reverence for the Constitution.

[Liberal Classic]

Was there anything in this report about abuse of perscription drugs? This is becoming as big, if not bigger issue, than illegal drugs. They other thing is that if these kids are in to heavy drug use, what are their problems to begin with?

[MrLeRoy]

Not at all. You don't see the crackheads robbing police officers do you? (Other than undercover officers posing as their own kind perhaps). It's called deterrence. It's why Washington, DC and other victim disarmament zones have high crime, and right to carry states with preemption over cities have low crime. By definition, libertarians are against central planning, so this isn't a plan by any means. You'd be free to stay disarmed and derive the free-rider benefits of the criminals not knowing who can respond and who can't.

As an aside, if the welfare state were ended, we'd have plenty of cheap domestic labor pool and wouldn't need to attract illegal immigration either to suck off us, or "take" entry level jobs. The underclasses wouldn't like their lot and would have an incentive to seek out real educational opportunity instead of courses on self esteem. Families might find reasons to stay together for their mutual benefit rather than the current 'do your own thing' tendency for individuals to strike out on their own across the social(ist) safety net that coddles misfits and the lazy.

There are two general models of politics and social life: self control or external control. When life is allowed to provide correcting feedback, the self control model reduces substance abuse a lot faster than the external control methods. Drug abuse isn't about drugs, it's about choices. Our current social institutions all breed dependent personalities where chemical dependency is but one small aspect of the problem. Blaming drugs is a materialistic world view, like blaming poverty on the environment.

EXCELLENT post, LibTeeth!

[Wolfie]

Almost 50% of All Cigarettes Smoked by Mentally Ill

by ROSIE MESTEL, Los Angeles Times [11/22/00]

Excerpts: MENTALLY ILL TWICE AS LIKELY TO BE SMOKERS, STUDY FINDS; TOBACCO: SPECIAL PROGRAMS MAY BE NEEDED TO ENCOURAGE PATIENTS TO QUIT, GIVEN THEIR ISOLATION AND TENDENCY TO USE NICOTINE TO FIGHT DEPRESSION, EXPERTS SAY.

Nearly half of all cigarettes purchased in the United States are smoked by people who suffer from mental illnesses, according to Harvard Medical School research.

Mentally ill people are roughly twice as likely to smoke cigarettes as those without mental illnesses, according to the research, published in today's Journal of the American Medical Assn. Not only does the habit put them at greater risk for serious ailments such as heart disease and lung cancer, but in some cases it can interfere with the effectiveness of medications to treat their disorders.

[MrLeRoy]

Heroin and cocaine are not traditional social drugs (like alcohol) but were created by chemists in the 19th century. Crack and meth were created by hoods about 20 years ago.

Opium and coca leaves have been around for a long time---as has marijuana. Do you favor legalizing them?

There's a big difference between a person who has a glass of wine and a person who has a hit of crack or a tab of meth.

Yes---the latter have been encouraged by the War On Some Drugs to make their drug a centerpiece rather than a sidelight of their activities, and to concentrate their drug for easier portability.

[MrLeRoy]

This study discounts the use of illegal drugs to self-medicate: untreated mental illness gets worse without proper diagnosis and treatment.

Has anyone here recommended self-medication or discouraged proper diagnosis and treatment? If not, what was your purpose in posting this?

[The Old Hoosier]

I'm not arguing against RKBA. What I'm saying is, we'd probably be outnumbered by the crackheads if libertarians ruled. We wouldn't be stopping the drugs, and we wouldn't be paying for rehab, so there could potentially be tens of millions of them. So you actually may have to shoot desperate people every day on your way to work, and you may be shot because you don't stand much of a chance surrounded by ten armed criminals.

[The Old Hoosier]

Our current social institutions all breed dependent personalities where chemical dependency is but one small aspect of the problem.

I agree, except for the word "small." Should be "major." Nearly all homeless people are there because they've gone crazy because of drugs. I have to walk past them every day.

[MrLeRoy]

we'd probably be outnumbered by the crackheads if libertarians ruled. We wouldn't be stopping the drugs, and we wouldn't be paying for rehab, so there could potentially be tens of millions of them.

Utter nonsense. We're not stopping the drugs now, and rehab has a chance only with the minority who know they have a problem and want to change. Not to mention that crack is a creation of the War On Some Drugs; prohibition leads to increased potency, as we saw during alcohol Prohibition.

[MrLeRoy]

Nearly all homeless people are there because they've gone crazy because of drugs.

Not quite; nearly all homeless people are there because they've gone crazy and/or are on drugs. Some are crazy with no help---and among those who are both crazy and druggies, you don't know which came first.

[The Old Hoosier]

I should add, it also helps that many of them are in jail now. That made a huge difference in NYC.

[pcpa]

Excessive use of alcohol, drugs, food or any other substance used to excess, not to mention gambling or even sex are merely the symptoms of another underlying problem. It helps for the individual to determine what the issue is. Until one does that and admits to ones self there can be no resolution.

[missileboy]

Blaming drugs is a materialistic world view, like blaming poverty on the environment.

Or like blaming crime on guns.

Wait, that's an argument put forth by "the other side", commonly mistakenly referred to as "liberals". OK. Being that Konservatives don't believe in the War on Guns, let me compartmentalize a little further to justify the WOD, then I'll get back to you with some more strawmen, or better yet, juvenile attacks referring to Libertarians as "dopers".

[radioman]

I believe this. I really do.

The National Institute On Drug Abuse has a history of producing bogus studies.
Everytime they get caught they just stop pushing that study and come out with another.
Do you also believe little grey men from planet Zoltan are here to help us?

[let freedom sing]

Has anyone here recommended self-medication or discouraged proper diagnosis and treatment? If not, what was your purpose in posting this?

The delay of early mental health treatment is the reason for the the increase in mental illness of early adulthood-- not the self-medication. The symptoms get worse, only because they will. Smoking and self-medication, are a sign of possible mental illness-- not a direct cause of it (except in case of overmedication.)

[Hildy]

When I was in High school in the early 70's, we ALL did drugs. There was not the kind of campaign there is now. I'm not ashamed, it's just the way it was back then. All of my friends are highly educated successful professonals now, in their mid 40's. I don't know one person whose life was ruined because of it. I'm not talking casual drug use, some of these people did alot of drugs. I'm not condoning it, I'm saying this is a vast overstatement. I"m sure there are many people who never did drugs that experience deep depression too.