Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Grijalva invites Ashcroft to see vigilante 'justice'
Arizona Daily Star ^ | 14 Jan 2003 | Unkown

Posted on 01/14/2003 8:01:56 AM PST by JackelopeBreeder

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 481-500501-520521-540 ... 561-576 next last
To: marajade
Fine... but apparently there seems to be some conflict in federal law if they MIGHT be able to qualify for aid and be living here at the same time...

This actually tends to be more of a problem at the state level, where most welfare benefits are administered. State officials simply do not report illegal status to the feds, so the INS is not aware that an illegal is on the state welfare rolls. But above and beyond that, the attitudes towards illegal immigration have, quite frankly, gotten Orwellian. A classic example was an illegal caught working at an airport, against federal regulations for such. She was put on probation - and as long as she didn't break the law, she could stay. For cryin' out loud, she's already breaking the law by being here illegally! That's the destruction of plain language and law that is starting to drive me nuts over this issue.

But thank you, I already am writing my senators - but I can do that AND support what the border groups are doing as well. Both are needed to bring attention to the insanity that passes for the execution of federal laws regarding immigration nowadays. And despite the unsupported claims of BlackElk, the groups are NOT breaking the law...

501 posted on 01/20/2003 12:45:58 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 500 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
"This actually tends to be more of a problem at the state level, where most welfare benefits are administered."

Those welfare programs you cited are FEDERAL programs... state's can actually be censured by administering them inaccurately be the fed gov't...
502 posted on 01/20/2003 12:48:51 PM PST by marajade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 501 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
" ... the groups are NOT breaking the law..."

I don't know... I don't know about AZ state's citizen arrest laws... do you?

503 posted on 01/20/2003 12:50:21 PM PST by marajade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 501 | View Replies]

To: marajade
I don't know... I don't know about AZ state's citizen arrest laws... do you?

Actually, I posted them and the AZ trespass laws on this thread earlier. The groups are currently working on private land at the express invite of landowners, and are mostly limiting themselves to observing aliens crossing private land and reporting the movements to the Border Patrol, who apparently has been quite cooperative. The only time the groups detain anyone is when they are observed breaking into residential buildings - which is, as described under 1st Degree Trespass in Arizona, a felony, and under the citizens arrest laws of Arizona, private citizens are allowed to make citizens arrests upon suspicion of a felony. So from what I can see, the groups are acting in a lawful manner under Arizona law. It's telling that Rep Grijalva wants to invite Ashcroft to look into what is essentially a state matter here, because the state laws do not prohibit what the groups are doing.

Now, if the groups go onto public land, they would have to limit themselves strictly to observation.

504 posted on 01/20/2003 12:56:06 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 503 | View Replies]

To: marajade
Those welfare programs you cited are FEDERAL programs... state's can actually be censured by administering them inaccurately be the fed gov't...

The states, from what I have seen, simply fail to notify the feds of the immigration status of applicants.

505 posted on 01/20/2003 12:56:57 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 502 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
"The only time the groups detain anyone is when they are observed breaking into residential buildings - which is, as described under 1st Degree Trespass in Arizona, a felony,"

Please link the code... Most trespass violations are misdemeanors... Maybe breaking and entering is a felony which is completely different I believe...
506 posted on 01/20/2003 12:58:41 PM PST by marajade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 504 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
"The states, from what I have seen, simply fail to notify the feds of the immigration status of applicants."

Then the Feds can, upon completion of an audit, financially censure those states for being in violation....


507 posted on 01/20/2003 1:00:26 PM PST by marajade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 505 | View Replies]

To: marajade
I posted the relevant codes earlier in the thread - the various degrees of trespass and the laws for citizens arrest.
508 posted on 01/20/2003 1:02:34 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 506 | View Replies]

To: marajade
Then the Feds can, upon completion of an audit, financially censure those states for being in violation....

Which they are not doing. Because almost no one in the federal government seems to want immigration law enforced. Which is exactly the friggin' point I am trying to make.

509 posted on 01/20/2003 1:03:25 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 507 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
Sure they are... AZ itself was under a multi million dollar sanction at one time within the last five years I believe until it came to some understanding with the feds...
510 posted on 01/20/2003 1:11:34 PM PST by marajade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 509 | View Replies]

To: marajade
Actually, now that you mention it, if the aliens are observed breaking into a non-residential structure and removing contents, that would be third-degree burglary under Arizona law, and a class-four felony. If they break into a residential structure, that would be a second-degree felony:

13-1506. Burglary in the third degree; classification

A. A person commits burglary in the third degree by entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a nonresidential structure or in a fenced commercial or residential yard with the intent to commit any theft or any felony therein.

B. Burglary in the third degree is a class 4 felony.

13-1507. Burglary in the second degree; classification

A. A person commits burglary in the second degree by entering or remaining unlawfully in or on a residential structure with the intent to commit any theft or any felony therein.

B. Burglary in the second degree is a class 3 felony.

511 posted on 01/20/2003 1:12:51 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 506 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
Should read second-degree burglary, not second-degree felony.
512 posted on 01/20/2003 1:13:49 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 511 | View Replies]

To: marajade
If anyone else wants to look up relevant Arizona code, here is the search engine I've been using:

ALIS

513 posted on 01/20/2003 1:14:43 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 510 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
I didn't see where it was a felony for just plain ol breaking and entering... it had to include theft or fraud of some kind for it to be a felony...
514 posted on 01/20/2003 1:21:07 PM PST by marajade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 513 | View Replies]

To: marajade
I didn't see where it was a felony for just plain ol breaking and entering... it had to include theft or fraud of some kind for it to be a felony

If they are seen taking anything out of the structure (and most aliens are breaking in to find food or supplies), it becomes burglary and a suspected felony at that point.

515 posted on 01/20/2003 1:22:33 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 514 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
Finding is different than taking...
516 posted on 01/20/2003 1:23:12 PM PST by marajade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 515 | View Replies]

To: marajade
Finding is different than taking...

Uh, this was my initial qualification for the burglary statutes:

if the aliens are observed breaking into a non-residential structure and removing contents.

You wanna nitpick this thread to death and not read what I have posted, be my guest, but you have done nothing to demonstrate that the border groups are doing anything illegal...

517 posted on 01/20/2003 1:26:45 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 516 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
I also believe that most misdemeanors have to be committed in the presence of a sworn law enforcement officer before they can be adjudged in court as well...
518 posted on 01/20/2003 1:27:50 PM PST by marajade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 515 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
See my post #518
519 posted on 01/20/2003 1:28:28 PM PST by marajade
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 517 | View Replies]

To: marajade
Here is the Arizona statute for citizen's arrest:

13-3884. Arrest by private person

A private person may make an arrest:

1. When the person to be arrested has in his presence committed a misdemeanor amounting to a breach of the peace, or a felony.

2. When a felony has been in fact committed and he has reasonable ground to believe that the person to be arrested has committed it.

Wanna nitpick that one?

520 posted on 01/20/2003 1:30:00 PM PST by dirtboy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 518 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 481-500501-520521-540 ... 561-576 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson