Grijalva invites Ashcroft to see vigilante 'justice'

Arizona Daily Star ^ | 14 Jan 2003 | Unkown

[Joe Hadenuf]

The sad thing is our own government takes the side of the corrupt and helps them prevent the establishment of a middle class over there, we definitely aren't promoting that which is what that country desperately needs.

You bet. This administration, his Dads administration, and others call the Mexican government our "good friend". Horse dung.

That government treats their people like animals, it's corrupt beyond comprehension, a government that deals in corruption, fraud, murder, drugs etc etc. They are no friend of America. The elite in Mexico live like Gods while the rest of the country beats a living chasing chickens around dirt roads. Lock down that border tight, and you are correct, they pressure cooker would heat up fast.

You know, as corrupt as the LEOs and government officials are down there, it would be pretty easy to over throw that corrupt government, and give the people a chance to make that country something they might be proud of.

Our government has just contributed to these criminally corrupt Mexican officials, by allowing millions of their poor to head northbound and flood our country, causing absolute chaos here. They have made it so easy for them to come here. The Mexicans should standing fast on their own soil to make it right, but instead they are heading northbound, for the better life.

They have the numbers, and they could pull it off anytime. To bad our own so-called leaders here are allowing this fraud and corruption to escalate, grow and continue.

[hchutch]

But YOU are the one who has now accused SPLC of lying.

Show me where it is. I backed up one of the major allegations they made, not only in the news article, but I found that quote repeated ELEVEN TIMES on the website.

I have asked for documentation that their claim existed. You've not even posted a link. I've not only posted the documentation and the sources that I could find, I ALSO posted an instance where they retracted.

I will ask again:
When have they out-and-out lied?
Do you have links to show the lies and the evidence that refutes them?
When have they been sued for libel, slander, or defamation?
How did those cases turn out? Settlement, guilty, or not guilty?

You have called that organization, in essence, a liar. THAT burden of proof is on you, or are you going to make ME prove a negative?

Can't have it both ways.

[hchutch]

And you are proving to be a complete waste of time.

See you in the primaries.

And as fair warning, if Mr. Spencer endorses a candidate for any general election I vote for, that candidate LOSES MY VOTE AND AS MANY AS I CAN TAKE WITH ME.

[dirtboy]

Once again, YOU were on the thread where the poster refuted the allegation about the cartoon. Ain't my damn fault if your memory is that bad, and I ain't gonna do your homework for you. And the SPLC is a group that labels political differences as racism - and you are doing the same. Adios....

[dirtboy]

And as fair warning, if Mr. Spencer endorses a candidate for any general election I vote for, that candidate LOSES MY VOTE AND AS MANY AS I CAN TAKE WITH ME.

That's OK, the GOP can win without crossover Democrats...

[bimbo]

” … to make clear that private armed groups claiming law enforcement powers have no role in patrolling our border with Mexico."

Until the U.S. Government begins to patrol the border, private armed groups claiming law enforcement powers CERTAINLY DO have a role.

[Joe Hadenuf]

But YOU are the one who has now accused SPLC of lying.

Huh? Your joking right? That loser organization is corrupt and run by extreme leftist. They have no credibility. Zero!

But feel free to keep bringing them up....LOL!

[hchutch]

Now THAT is a lie, dirtboy.

As Mudboy Slim and others can attest, I can in NO WAY be called a "crossover Demcorat."

You're dissing as a "crossover Demcorat" someone who has TWICE written in Ollie North as opposed to voting for John Warner.

THE ONLY THING I am guilty of is being a pro-immigration conservative Republican. I'll give you a chance to retract before I report the "crossover Democrat" comment as a personal attack.

[hchutch]

Prove your allegation, then.

[dirtboy]

Show me where it is. I backed up one of the major allegations they made, not only in the news article, but I found that quote repeated ELEVEN TIMES on the website.

What you have failed to do regarding that statement is to state YOUR opinion as to why that comment is racist. I laid down a challenge to you with a statement of my own - and you tried to explain it away and failed. I already explained how SPLC works - they will make some very serious allegations that are bogus, and fill it in with some factual claims that are marginal, such as the quote Spencer made that you provided. So since you believe that the quote is sufficient to ban Spencer, you owe the forum an explanation as to exactly WHY you feel that way. NOT that you disagree with his motives or his politics, but WHY THE SPECIFIC QUOTE IS RACIST. Because if you can't, you're not better than Morris Dees, who considers political differences of opinion to be racist.

[occam's chainsaw]

The table was compiled and posted by FReeper Marine Inspector who happens to be have a career in INS law enforcement. I sincerely doubt that he appreciates being referred to as a "xenophobic hobbyist" any more than you would appreciate being referred to as a "crack smoking spin artist".

[dirtboy]

THE ONLY THING I am guilty of is being a pro-immigration conservative Republican. I'll give you a chance to retract before I report the "crossover Democrat" comment as a personal attack.

Go right ahead. And report me as a bigot as well, while you're at it. And then explain to JimRob why you are promoting the rantings of a notorious liberal organization, the SPLC, on his website.

[Joe Hadenuf]

But YOU are the one who has now accused SPLC of lying. Prove your allegation, then.

Oh come on hutchman. Anyone with a brain knows the people involved with the SPLC are a bunch of extreme leftist, commie screw worms.....

[dirtboy]

You're dissing as a "crossover Demcorat" someone who has TWICE written in Ollie North as opposed to voting for John Warner.

Gee, the SPLC doesn't like Ollie. From a search of their website:

The diminutive Gemma was also a member of the influential and highly secretive Council for National Policy (CNP). Founded in 1981, the CNP meets three times a year to strategize about how to advance a right-wing agenda. Its elite roster of heavy-hitters reads like a Who's Who of the hard right in the United States.

Past and present CNP members include financiers Nelson Bunker Hunt and Joseph Coors; religious right leaders Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Phyllis Schlafly and the late R.J. Rushdoony; public officials like Sen. Jesse Helms, then-Sen. John Ashcroft and former Attorney General Edwin Meese; militia booster and Gun Owners of America chief Larry Pratt, Catholic reactionary Paul Weyrich (see related story, “Mainstreaming Hate,” also in this issue), black conservative Alan Keyes, and Iran-contra scandal operatives Maj. Gen. John Singlaub and Lt. Col. Oliver North.

Still think the SPLC doesn't have a liberal agenda?

[hchutch]

You first brought them up on this thread, which invtived my checks into their credibility.

If you are so damn sure that I am some DUmmy, then why don't YOU file labeling me as a disruptor? Come on, dirtboy, do you have the GUTS to back up your trash talk on this thread against those who have disagreed with you, like BlackElk and myself?

[hchutch]

As I said, I've had my disagreements with them - I have said that countless times on this thread.

Prove I'm a crossover Demcorat... it's your allegation.

[dirtboy]

If you are so damn sure that I am some DUmmy, then why don't YOU file labeling me as a disruptor? Come on, dirtboy, do you have the GUTS to back up your trash talk on this thread against those who have disagreed with you, like BlackElk and myself?

Boy, you can dish it out, but you can't take it. You start out this exchange with a call to ban American Patrol, but you can't take some barbs in return once you've lowered the tone of the thread to that level? I'm saying the only people who will back you up regarding SPLC will be found on DU, you won't find any here. Oh, and BTW, they hate Ollie North with a passion. And I'm gonna post one of their classic articles that equates conservative politics with hate. In other words, political differences are turned into racism so they can't be debated.

[hchutch]

I never said they weren't.

All I said was that the preponderance of the evidence I have seen so far indicates they're telling the truth in this matter regarding Mr. Spencer.

[hchutch]

Go ahead, post it... you just MIGHT be surprised at my response...

[dirtboy]

As I said, I've had my disagreements with them - I have said that countless times on this thread.

Oh, so they can diss your boy Ollie with the hate label, but you'll cheerfully lap up their slime against American Patrol because it fits your own political views against those groups? Are you really sure you wish to paint yourself in this manner?

Prove I'm a crossover Demcorat... it's your allegation.

I'll retract that one. Given your stand here in favor of an organization that brands political differences as hate, I'm really not sure what to call you, but none of the possibilities are complimentary...