14 Shots

http://clevescene.com/issues/2002-12-25/feature.html/1/index.html ^

[hopespringseternal]

Besides three bullets in the back, Finley took two in the chest. Eight struck his arms and legs, another grazed his mouth. "How much could he have been moving after three or four shots, let alone 14?" asks Dianna Albertson, a family friend.

Very few people understand how your mind reacts to intense situations. Adrenaline destroys your ability to think and perform delicate tasks, like aiming a gun.

Even a revolver with a long, heavy trigger pull can be emptied very quickly, easily within the timespan required for an adrenaline-addled brain to come to the conclusion that the bad guy is no longer a threat.

Given the details in this article, it isn't hard to believe that the cop is entirely justified. People looking for help generally knock, ring the doorbell, or scream loudly, not try to quietly break and enter carrying a flagpole.

[Double Tap]

First day on FR, welcome. So what is your opinion on this shooting? Or are you just stirring it up?

[Spiritus Gladius]

How can it take 14 shots to stop a 20-year-old kid?

Easy. The cop ignored a fundamental rule: "Never use a handgun whose caliber doesn't start with 4."

[Oberon]

Without more info than Toomey mowing the lawn in uniform, or some more info on the Robinson dawgs, there isn't much else to be done than accept Toomey's version.

Don't know the law where this happened, but in North Carolina the Bug's actions wouldn't have constituted grounds for a private citizen to use lethal force. Right or wrong, it wouldn't have been a legal shoot.

[Democrap]

If this is true(and who knows if it is), then this Toomey guy seems just a little odd.

Dry cleaning must be pretty cheap in his area too.

[Spiritus Gladius]

Besides three bullets in the back, Finley took two in the chest. Eight struck his arms and legs, another grazed his mouth. "How much could he have been moving after three or four shots, let alone 14?" asks Dianna Albertson, a family friend.

I've seen belligerent drunks keep punching even with multiple broken bones in their hands and out-of-their-gourd stoners get up and walk on broken legs. Short of a direct hit on the spinal column or brain stem, humans can absorb a remarkable amount of damage and keep moving, at least for a little while.

In this regard the 9mm parabellum, especially in 115-grain ball loading, is awful for police work. The slugs have a tendancy to go right through soft tissue, and keep going. Police shooting reports are replete with accounts of people shot with 9mm, in many cases fatally, who still managed to run hundreds of yards before succumbing to their wounds.

[csvset]

Bobby Early got a tattoo
to honor his dead cousin.

His cousins say Bug (second from left)
had started to turn his life around.

"If I had shot someone like that," Joe Finley Sr. says,
"I'd be sitting in jail right now."

Finley's family, including his aunt, Kimberly Early,
believe Toomey will keep his badge.

All photos by Walter Novak

[Lion Den Dan]

Besides three bullets in the back, Finley took two in the chest. Eight struck his arms and legs, another grazed his mouth. "How much could he have been moving after three or four shots, let alone 14?" asks Dianna Albertson, a family friend.

Bullets in the arms and legs do not necessarily stop a fight. There is a lot of stuff in the chest cavity, front and back, that can be penetrated and not be life threatening. A 9mm is not a very powerful cartridge. I am hardly surprised that he kept on shooting under the circumstances.

[Mad Dawgg]

The man (Bug)stood and swung a yellow metal pole into Toomey's chest.

The off-duty cop (Toomey) plugged Finley with 14 bullets -- three in the back.

Moral to this story:

Never bring a "Yellow Metal Pole" to a Gun Fight!

[PoorMuttly]

This unfortunate, "normal kid" used CRACK Cocaine, marijuana constantly, probably drank had PERMANENTLY actually affixed a LABEL to himself as THUG LIFE, was suspected of dealing drugs, was stabbed in the gut, and still "hung out" on the street, "trying to clean himself up"...how ? By lying/dreaming/ giving lip-service about it, breaking in to somebody's garage, hiding from then attacking the owner, who identified himself as an armed police officer, was shot while attacking...then shot again until he posed no more threat of murder...shot with a FAMOUSLY deficient pistol...when ONE .45 may have stopped his attacking an innocent man...and...WHAT is the problem here ?

I don't get it.

[PoorMuttly]

Some drugged, rampaging men have had to be stopped by a shotgun blast to the head, when ALL else failed. Ask the men who tried to kill Rasputin...or many modern American prison guards. This is no story...it is a matter of record, and fact. BTW...Police, unlike civilians, are NOT required to back down from a homicidal attack. This is what they're paid, and respected for.

[Spiritus Gladius]

The problem here, for one, is that everyone keeps referring to this 20-year-old man as a "kid." Sorry, I knew too many 18- and 19-year-olds who lost limbs, organs, or their lives in the service of our country to be willing to accept this schlub as "just a mixed-up kid" who "made a few mistakes."

The problem would seem to be that NO ONE in his family ever demanded that he grow up, act like a man, and take responsibility for himself and his actions. Instead, he apparently was granted unlimited adolescence --- until in the end, he finally ran into the ultimate behavioral limit.

Sad, but neither necessary nor surprising. I mean, just look at the photo of Joe Sr. Sheesh....

[moyden]

Another piece of human garbage flushed down the toilet.

The homeowner is the hero.

[Atlas Sneezed]

bang

[Spiritus Gladius]

Don't be too harsh and judgemental. This shooting may have deprived the world of the next Eminem.

On second thought...

[archy]

We really ought to begin a pool on how long it takes for Bobby Early to check out in a similar fashion.

More and more when I carry my 9mm Browning GP for serious purposes, it's with a 30-round magazine in place.

-archy-/-

[csvset]

..begin a pool on how long it takes for Bobby Early to check out in a similar fashion.

The caption from the second picture is such a cliche.

His cousins say Bug had started to turn his life around.

Earlier tonight, I watched a program about gangs. They showed gangsters both inside and outside of prison. More than one said that the only way out of the gang is to die. The fact that a off duty cop took "Bug" out is just a coincidence.

[harpseal]

Although my personal preference is for the .45acp round, I do not think that a person carrying a 9mm with good hollowpoint ammunition is under armed. Given the fact that 14 rounds of 9mm can be fired off in less than 5 seconds I do not think you can say this was a case of the round failing to give a one shot stop.

Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown

[rangersdaughter]

OK, this guy is in my yard and I exit my house saying, "I'm a police officer." Rather than stopping, sitting still, asking for help, crying, this moron picks up a long pole and swings it AT me. Yeah, he's there for tea and crumpets, eh?

In defending my family, my home, my life, I will empty my weapon, no matter how many shots it has in it. If I pull it out, it will be fired until all the bullets are gone. If that means I'm shooting a guy who's basically dancing from the smack of lead into his limbs, I don't care.

He shouldn't have been where he was, he acted like a perp, he probably was a perp, and I'm in total support of the officer.

[rangersdaughter]

On the mark, and thanks for the reminder.

rangersdaughter