Coffee,Tea,or Should We Feel Your Pregnant Wifes Breasts Before Throwing You in a Cell attheAirport?

lewrockwell.com ^ | 12/18/2002 | Nicholas Monahan

[HairOfTheDog]

The government agents are protecting a vulnerable border. Those ports are a national security issue as much as any other port or border crossing. The airlines need to focus on flying airplanes, imho, not in providing the whole security system. If threats are found, they need the power to arrest.

Look, we disagree on whether society can make rules about how we live, and if they do, whether I have to abide by it. It a society governed by laws, I think I do.

[general_re]

You had stated that there is a contract enumerating the rights of citizens and if we wish to add to them there is a procedure. On this point you are absolutely wrong.

Really, now. It's perfectly possible to make an argument without distorting my words. What I actually said was that there is a contract enumerating the rights that society recognizes and protects. You may certainly assert rights beyond that, but those are the rights protected by society. If you wish to add to the list of rights protected by society, there is a procedure for so doing.

You see, it cannot be your right if it infringes upon mine. This is why health care can NEVER be a "right". To make it so would require someone else to give you something of his, i.e. the doctor would give away his time and expertise. This would infringe upon his rights.

My copy of the Consitution must be an edited version - I can't seem to find that language anywhere in the Ninth Amendment. Perhaps you would be so good as to list the portions of the Ninth that support such a contention.

Their job is to secure MY rights and do the things, and ONLY the things, which I give them permission to do.

Of course. However, that does not make every wish you have into a "right". Society is not obligated to protect something as a right merely because you assert it to be so.

[sargon]

Ever notice how most public 'servants' react to a camcorder or tape recorder in these situations? It's impressive: like a vampire recoiling from a cross.

LOL!

[general_re]

You have that backwards sir. Point out the language that makes them LEGAL.

The Constitution guarantees your right to be free from "unreasonable" search and seizure. You seem to consider a consensual search unreasonable. Your opinion is in the minority.

They have to have MY permission to do something.

As in, when they ask your permission to search you before you board a commercial flight? Permission that you are free to refuse at any point during the boarding process?

[general_re]

Remember, your rights END where mine BEGIN. When you defame me sir, you have harmed me. You have infringed upon my rights.
...
Travel is an absolute, unrestricted right? I can travel in any fashion I like, under any circumstances I choose?

You certainly may, as long as the fashion, and circumstances, do not infringe upon anothers rights or property.

So, in other words, neither my right to free speech nor my right to travel are absolute and unencumbered. Why can't you guys just admit this? I know it, you know it, the world knows it by now. I do not have an absolute and unencumbered right to free speech or to travel, and neither do you.

A RIGHT, by its very definition, ceases when it infringes upon the rights of another.

Funny, my copy of the Ninth Amendment doesn't say that, either...

[general_re]

A right to something cannot exist if it infringes upon the rights of another.

So, in other words, my rights are not absolute and unencumbered. My free-speech rights do not extend to defamation, and I probably don't have the right to shout through a loudspeaker on your lawn at 3 AM.

So, since that we both agree that some restrictions to rights are inevitable, let us turn now to deciding what those restrictions ought to be...

[RGSpincich]

I require them to obtain a valid search warrant, rather than just doing whatever they please.

You do that and be sure your airline carrier believes in waiting for you. I suspect that when faced with an inconvenience of scrambled flight plans or a reasonable search, you will assume the position.

[Gore_ War_ Vet]

Sorry to give you a homework assignment, but this is another example of who "we" are. The story here here isn't the article but the replies.

More to come.

Did "we" hit? I'll take mine in C notes.

Thanks

[ChemistCat]

The airlines are being driven into bankruptcy because this federally mandated security is driving away most of their business. The security won't stop another terror attack; it merely makes using airliners for an attack a little more difficult. Now you KNOW that nothing could stop the guy who snaps because his wife leaves him--except determined passengers who aren't going to let a froot loop take their lives. Security that won't out-and-out STOP an organized terror cell with a good plan is just plain worthless. The best security we have is the determination of a free people not to be flown into buildings again. The government saps that determination rather than building it when they deem us too irresponsible to take knitting needles on PRIVATE property. (If the airlines don't want knitting needles, that's their call, as part of the competitive world of businessmaking decisions.)

The airlines are going to have to push back at the government sooner or later, or be driven out of business. Too many people who don't need to fly are refusing to fly, and too many people who do need to fly are cutting back. If we want to have commercial airlines (and I think our economy demands commercial airlines)--then we must stop this groping of women and harassment of high-strung but gallant men.

Read the article. The guy may be kinda stupid and taken in by the socialists in many ways, but can you doubt that if anyone tried to highjack the plane his pregnant wife was on, he'd be joining the line to whack the highjacker?

I see only a couple of sheep on this thread who would sit down and let a highjacker cut their throats without fighting back. Most of us would lay down our lives to prevent another 9/11.

[general_re]

Sir, they are not asking my permission, they are forcing me to give consent. There really is a difference.

What right of yours is being violated if you refuse?

Further, to require me to submit to the search before engaging in LEGAL activity, they are, in fact, violating my 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination. They are forcing me to perhaps incriminate myself.

What crime are you planning on committing that you require prior protection from self-incrimination? By your logic, it is illegal for you to carry a gun onto a plane, so therefore to search you for that gun would violate your right not to self-incriminate yourself. In which case, you are free to violate the law at will, and there's very little point in even having such a law. Is that really where you want to go with this?

[southern rock]

Huffing little pansy windbag

Riiiiht! This guy was a pansy. Nice spin. I guess up is down and black is white in your little world too.

[Prodigal Daughter]

Nothing’s going to stop the inevitable. There’s no policy change that’s going to save us. There’s no election that’s going to put a halt to the onslaught of tyranny. It’s here already – this country has changed for the worse and will continue to change for the worse. There is now a division between the citizenry and the state. When that state is used as a tool against me, there is no longer any reason why I should owe any allegiance to that state.

And that’s the first thing that child of ours is going to learn.

He should have the child learn that while living in some remote area like Western Samoa.

It's not just about some female sexual deviant feeling up women's breasts in the airport (similar incidents have already been reported in the media, I see a trend starting), we also have political prisoners and mafia style court enforcement of personal vendettas becoming commonplace. How about Christians being persecuted for exercising their civil rights and having women arrested and their files maliciously merged with prostitutes' files so that they can be stripped searched and subjected to syphilis blood tests, or teenagers who are told they have to stay overnight in prison subject to a judge's order even though the order violates the law, just to touch the surface of what's going on.

Then if your civil rights are violated, try finding an attorney who will defend you for less than $10,000 and that's without going to trial, and is the attorney going to work for you or is he going to be working for the system?

I had a dream Thanksgiving eve that woke me from sleep, shaking and in a cold sweat. I dreamed that I was in a large enclosed municipal style parking lot late at night and I was walking to my car all alone. It looked like an airport parking lot and looked to be empty except that on the other side of the parking level I could hear a man ordering some woman around and I couldn't make out the conversation, but I could hear that she was pleading with him. The only words I could understand clearly were that the man was repeatedly saying, "Homeland Security says..." In the dream, as I listened to their conversation escalate, I was overtaken by terror and I was trying to think of a way of helping this woman, but in the dream I also knew that this "Homeland Security" was very powerful and its network reached everywhere, and it reminded me of the Wizard of Oz movie where everyone spoke of the Wizard in a deferential mysterious way.

I couldn't call the police because this man who was threatening the woman was himself some type of law enforcement person and I ran a risk of getting another sadistic cohort of his if I called. It was clear to me in the dream that the whole system was extensively infiltrated by these sadistic types and that those who tried to sound the battle cry would be punished. So I tried to think of who I could trust that might be able to do something for her, but I knew I better get out of there before he saw me.

I was shaking so hard I couldn't find my car key on my key chain, I kept flipping through the keys but my brain wasn't processing what I was seeing. I only remember feeling this type of terror once in my life and it was when I was snorkeling and had terror overcome me but didn't know why, so I started swimming furiously to the boat and felt like an idiot trying to remember how to swim, but made it to the boat. In a few minutes, I heard my cousin in law swimming furiously to the boat also and found out that he had seen what looked to be a great white swimming right below me! I had this same feeling in the dream, it was an intuitive all encompassing terror that had a survival instinct component, and I knew that I only had a moment to get out of there or there would be more like him arriving soon.

I finally found my key, opened my car door and drove away, but not before catching a glimpse at the area where I had heard the woman's pleadings come from. By now she was crying and I couldn't see him and I could only see her body, not her face, because part of the view was obstructed by dividing posts, but I could see that she was tied or handcuffed to something low, like maybe the back of a car, and was almost lying prostate on the ground and her body was shaking terribly, and I was overcome with anguish seeing her and she was very thin, and was dressed in very beautiful gauzy (ethereal-like, they were linen/muslin like but really glowed) white slacks and a white blouse, and I woke up shaking and couldn't get back to sleep.

Rev. 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Rev.7:13- 17And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Rev. 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they [were], should be fulfilled.