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Christmas Before Christ? The Surprising Story
United Church of God ^ | 12/200 | Jerold Aust

Posted on 12/21/2002 11:21:49 AM PST by DouglasKC

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To: DallasMike
I'll go to the corner and flog myself quietly.

Nope, that's no good. I just realized that, before the medieval Christian flagellants, there were pagans who had whips. So you can't do that either.

I have also discovered, through my intensive studies, that long before the birth of Christ, pagans were eating food and wearing clothes. I assume you'll want to give up those activities immediately...

61 posted on 12/21/2002 6:04:59 PM PST by general_re
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To: 2sheep
This isn't about Marvin and not about giving...Even the heathen give to have men think well of them.

I understand your point about not making giving a public act; however, I would not have told the story unless you needed to hear it. I'd like to think that my story might cause you to understand that Christ is Lord of Christmas and every other day.

You probably need to skip the stuff about Nimrod and the Masons and your friends having "visions." Nimrod is dead; Ishtar is a demon; and Jesus Christ is the risen Son of God.

62 posted on 12/21/2002 6:05:22 PM PST by DallasMike
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To: general_re
I have also discovered, through my intensive studies, that long before the birth of Christ, pagans were eating food and wearing clothes. I assume you'll want to give up those activities immediately...

Don't forget breathing -- remember that the picture of Nimrod shows him with a nose.

63 posted on 12/21/2002 6:07:05 PM PST by DallasMike
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To: PleaseNoMore
And a Merry CHRISTmas to you, too!
64 posted on 12/21/2002 6:08:06 PM PST by DallasMike
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To: DallasMike
Of course, you're right. I have taken a solemn vow to forswear breathing, so that the remaining few moments of my life may be as good and holy as possible.

And now I have to go, as I am suddenly feeling a bit light-heau787879gtb bi,nm bi,gb;m 7tgb87

65 posted on 12/21/2002 6:15:30 PM PST by general_re
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To: DallasMike
BTW, have a merry Christmas ;)
66 posted on 12/21/2002 6:17:10 PM PST by general_re
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To: 2sheep
When people are used to believeing something you can really get their ire up by pointing out that it is inconsistant with the book that they claim as thier guide. Just imagine how they would react if you were to tell that you don't eat pork or that you believe that the Sabbath is on Saturday because that's the way the Bible puts it.

However Cristianity is about good will toward all even if they do not agree with you, remember to treat others as you would want them to treat you (it's a lot harder to do than you would think). Present each other with facts and truths and not curses and vilifacations.

67 posted on 12/21/2002 6:22:35 PM PST by fella
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To: ALS; Eagle Eye
>>Now watch the hypocrites crawl out from the woodwork in anger.

You were right.

Da 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

It is impossible to convince those to whom God has not given understanding, because they "Will Not Endure Sound Doctrine."  The same companies that sell WWJD buttons and bumper stickers should now be retooling for bulk DOWNLOADS of WNESD replacements.  The mockers, scoffers and those who scorn the things of God will not be given understanding.

Ga 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

These are the days of Noah when the wicked did wickedly and "knew not" until the flood took them away.  There is currently a flood from Satan's mouth (Rev. 12:15) in the land and a spirit of deception over the land like darkness that can be felt.  Lot's sons-in-law mocked and were destroyed.  Lot's wife looked back, loving the things of this world and was destroyed.  The time to Repent is now!  Much worse is to come because the preponderance of people have hardened their heart and lifted themselves up in PRIDE!

Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

The false prophets have come with their host of false doctrines and deceived MANY.  Past tense!  Many like Esau are going to be unable to find a place repentance.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they Will Not Endure Sound Doctrine*; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Paul's prophecy in 2 Tim 4:3-4 is now fulfilled in your ears!

*WNESD

68 posted on 12/21/2002 6:23:30 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: fella
Present each other with facts and truths and not curses and vilifacations.

I'm not cursing or vilifying anyone.  I posted the Word.  Those who have no place in them for the Word and who are offended by the Word or who want to twist the Word into what they want it to mean, say I am hateful because their arms are too short to box with G~d.  They need to Repent and seek the Light.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

69 posted on 12/21/2002 6:30:37 PM PST by 2sheep
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To: 2sheep
The curses and vilifacations comment was aimd at those who have bee heeping them on you in this thread, you have handled yourself quite well but you seem to be getting a little edgey. Relax a little, it's only words and ideas to be accepted or not by the idividuals who read them.
70 posted on 12/21/2002 6:42:03 PM PST by fella
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To: 2sheep
Enjoy your Holidays!
71 posted on 12/21/2002 6:46:09 PM PST by bonfire
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To: Fury
Of course that's what she's trying to say! She can take your screenname and find the word "fury" in the Bible and by golly, it's a sign from God! Sad.
72 posted on 12/21/2002 6:48:48 PM PST by bonfire
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To: 2sheep
I'm not cursing or vilifying anyone.  I posted the Word. 

Please explain to us how your post in 27 is the Word.

73 posted on 12/21/2002 6:54:59 PM PST by Fury
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To: DouglasKC
This author is really stretching it in this anti-Christian tirade. WE slice up time and place it in categories dependidant on seasonal cycles which differ in differing civilizations. Different cultures or Christians in different countries inject some of their own cultural beliefs and idiosyncracies in Christian celebrations.And the majority are not pining for a White Christmas or Santa Claus or Rudolph, etc. Since exact dates are not available from the past, dates were chosen which closely approximated Christian holy days.

No doubt some days were selected were of convenience (seasons, harvest, etc.) and were made to coincide with with pre-Christian religious holy days. However, for example, many elitist idiots make a big deal by claiming that Easter was derived from a pagan holiday when actually only the name of that day derived from the pagan Easter celebration was used to name the time of remembering the crucifixion and resurrection. And some of the pre-Christian Easter activities were still followed. Then you have the Catholics who have made numerous saints (who gave them the authority to make saints is another discussion) for which days are assigned which have its own local cultural flavour.

74 posted on 12/21/2002 7:26:50 PM PST by TransOxus
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To: Mercat
In the beginning was the Word. There is no such thing as "pre-Christian." Throughout the ages, people have had a glimps of the truth, not just the Jews. Read C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien.

I can agree with that. I think God's laws pre-existed Judah and Israel before that. It's goes all the way back to Adam and Eve. :-)

75 posted on 12/21/2002 8:28:22 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: 2sheep
Thanks for posting this. You are correct however this article will only witness to a narrow group.

That is certainly true. Thank you for the links.

76 posted on 12/21/2002 8:30:49 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: Junior
Jerold Aust sounds like a Whahabi sans the singing and dancing.
77 posted on 12/21/2002 8:35:40 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic
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To: Faith
However, there is only ONE REASON that we celebrate Christmas, and that is to celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Christians SHOULD celebrate the birth of Jesus!

The bible tells us specifically what to celebrate about and remember about Christ: His death. Not his birth nor his resurrection.

The problem with modern society is that they have abandoned the holy days given by God and created their own. If it were simply a matter of Christmas being a day to celebrate Christ's birth IN ADDITION to observing the biblical holy days it would probably be okay. Chanukah is an example. It was not ordained by God, but was created by Jews in respect of God. Thanksgiving is another one. It was created to give thanks to God.

The problem with Christmas though is deep. It is an example of syncretism:

Syncretism is the process by which elements of one religion are assimilated into another religion resulting in a change in the fundamental tenets or nature of those religions. It is the union of two or more opposite beliefs, so that the synthesized form is a new thing. It is not always a total fusion, but may be a combination of separate segments that remain identifiable compartments. Originally a political term, "syncretism" was used to describe the joining together of rival Greek forces on the Isle of Crete in opposition to a common enemy.

This is what happened to Christianity when it attempted to meld pagan practices with Christianity.

78 posted on 12/21/2002 8:45:25 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: jude24
Apparently legalists never read Romans 14:4-5

Thank you for the compliment. I love being called a legalist. It means I'm obeying God and that fact is recognized. :-)

4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

To refute this takes too long and I'm too tired. Suffice to say that the greek language isn't referring to God's holy days at all. There are seperate and distinct words used for these that aren't used here.

79 posted on 12/21/2002 8:50:10 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC
Great article.
80 posted on 12/21/2002 8:52:50 PM PST by TheCPA
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