Posted on 12/21/2002 11:21:49 AM PST by DouglasKC
I would suggest that you re-read the article. Then I would suggest that you study what the differences would have been in the 1st century between Jews who did not believe the messiah had come as opposed to Jews who believed the messiah had come.
There's a bunch of information available for anyone who cares to study it.
You guys got that right. People who would never think twice about expecting a jew to participate in Christmas seem to really have a problem with Christians not wanting to participate.
What made it easier for me this past week was thinking of Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah and how they clung to their faith in the middle of Babylon. They certainly had a much tougher test of faith then us.
Just as an aside on this, if anyone is brave enough...look up the Satanic Bible on the internet and examine which holiday is the highest holy day in Satanism.
You'll be surprised.
I've just posted the scripture and you have yet again DENIED IT.
>***Galations*** 5:19 Now the works of the flesh* are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, &c
>It is, to put it charitably, not demonstrated that Christmas is idolatrous.
It is not demonstrated to you because you do not see. Sir Dashwood sees and you don't because you have been given over to believe a lie. I posted the whole verse but you chose to cut off the parts that offend you. You also cut the above verse off before the next word in the list of bad fruit: witchcraft. Read Num. 18 about whose who do witchcraft. Check out heresies as well.
>20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies...
Why not make the effort to actually study the Bible and design a celebration based on Biblical accuracy instead of pagan traditions and lies?
It's tradition vs truth, and people cling to tradition rather than truth. Personally, outside of spiritual blindness, I cannot understand why ANYONE would prefer to be wrong when it is so easy to to switch and be right.
The masses have always rejected righteousness and always will.
1) Made the assertion that the celebration of Christmas is idolatry and is not not sound doctrine
2) Show that the Bible forbids idolatry and unsound doctrine
3) Then concluded that the Bible forbids celebrating Christmas
All you've done is used circular reasoning. I could do the same all day long, like with this example:
1) Assert that using the internet is idolatry and is unsound doctrine not specifically mentioned in the Bible
2) Show that the Bible forbids idolatry and unsound doctrine
3) Conclude that the Bible forbids using the internet
4) Accuse you of walking in the flesh and blinded by spirits because you use the internet
2sheep, your heart is no doubt in the right place but your reasoning is seriously flawed. God invented logic and expects you to use it when discerning the scriptures.
Your logic is extremely flawed -- there are plenty of things that Jesus and his disciples did that aren't mentioned in the Bible. You cannot prove a negative.
2sheep sez it is, so it must be true. Haven't you figured that out yet?
Thank you. See my post #169 which proves that using the internet is a sin. For an encore, I might prove that wearing the color blue is a sin.
I'll bet you're right. But I'll bet his love far outweighs his disappointment.
Many centuries later the apostle Paul traveled to and raised up churches in many gentile cities. To the members of the Church of God in Corinth, a city steeped in idolatry, Paul wrote: "... What fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God ... Therefore 'Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you.' ... Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God" (2 Corinthians 6:14-17; 7:1).
Being persecuted for your faith is one thing; being corrected because you're preaching silliness and calling it sound doctrine is another thing altogether.
Of course they apply to me -- they apply to all of us. But what does that have to do with the issue we're discussing? You're using 2sheep's circular reasoning.
Romans 14:4-6 is the final word on the matter:
4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.
-- Romans 14:4-6
The thing is that 2sheep and company are unwilling to see this. They cannot comprehend the idea of salvation by grace alone, but rather must add their works to the equation. They make the same mistake as the Judaizers that Paul faced, who claimed circumcision was necessary to salvation.
Those who observe Christmas so as to honor God are doing right. Those who do not observe Christmas so as to honor God are also doing right. But the one who judges his brother because he does or does not observe a holy day is overstepping his authority, at the least, and corrupting the gospel at the worst.
Which is exactly why I pointed them to the book of Galatians.
2sheep goes a bit further though. My first encounter with him was a year or so ago when he argued that C.S. Lewis was not really a Christian at all, but a Satanist who worshipped the Sun God. The "proof" was the rantings on the website of some nutcase pastor out in West Texas.
-- Romans 14:4-6
You are reading this from a 21st century modern american viewpoint that does not believe that God created any days as holy or sanctified.
When you read all of Romans 14 in context you'll see that he isn't talking about holy days of God (indeed if you study the wording you'll see that the "days" mentioned are specifically not God's holy days.).
Romans 14 is all about eating a drinking practices. Read the chapter and you'll see that it's true. The days referred to probably refer to the practice that some Jews had of fasting on certain days that were part of the Jewish rabbanical tradition, but not part of scripture. An alternate meaning is that they are referring to the guilt that the gentile Christians had from eating meat sacrificed to idols...it might have reminded them of the pagan holidays.
You need to do a real bible study on it...you'll find it fascinating.
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