Earth's Groundhog Days Continue Thirty Years Later (Apollo moon mission)

Spacedaily ^ | 12/19/02 | John Carter McKnight

[Brett66]

Ping.

[Archangelsk]

Very provocative article. I think the wakeup call for the U.S., in regards to a revitalization of our space program, will be when the Chinese put a man on the moon.

[Brett66]

It will probably take that to shake us out of our low Earth orbit slumber, but I hope we have enough common sense to revive our moon efforts before they go there. We have a nice expensive space station in LEO already, it should be a lot easier to go back to the moon with the ISS as a staging point.

[Atlas Sneezed]

"I think the wakeup call for the U.S., in regards to a revitalization of our space program, will be when the Chinese put a man on the moon."

The question is: WHY?

We can understand that totalitarian government (or those with ample tax revenues due to prosperity and a motivated public) will be able to do grand things that land the President's signature on foreign bodies.

However, Apollo was a rare moment in human history: when computers were advanced enough to make controlling complex systems possible, but just before computers made humans unnecessary on the flight. Give me missions than send and recover Imax cameras (or with HDTV video streams) for 10% the cost of manned missions, and let ME experience the event. I don't need an inarticulate fighter jock to go there so that I can identify with the experience. Humans were needed back before pocket calculators. They are no longer needed, and only make the process immensely more expensive, or impossible.

[Restorer]

The problem with your argument is that as long as we are stuck on a single planet, the human race is highly vulnerable.

As the movie Armageddon, with all its inaccuracies, showed.

We need to spread out and colonize the solar system and (eventually) the galaxy.

Keeping all your eggs in one (highly vulnerable) basket is not very smart.

[Archangelsk]

The question is: WHY?

Because there is a valuable energy source, helium 3, that is waiting to be exploited. You can read about it here.

I don't need an inarticulate fighter jock...

I'm quite sure our pilots in the Gulf would disagree with you. :-)

[Atlas Sneezed]

"Because there is a valuable energy source, helium 3, that is waiting to be exploited."

Nifty. Now explain why MY tax dollars should go toward this boondoggle that the free market would never touch, when there is plenty of energy on earth, and saving money will leave more for the free market to develop improved sources.

[Archangelsk]

Now explain why MY tax dollars should go toward this boondoggle that the free market would never touch, when there is plenty of energy on earth, and saving money will leave more for the free market to develop improved sources.

Because if we don't the Chinese will. Unless we start looking a quarter century or greater down the road we will cede our position as the top power in the world. The explotation of space resources, and its derivatives such as a population more attuned to science and hard education, should be a national priority. Our current status is threatened and I, for one, do not want my country to slip to the ranks of second tier.

Yes, this will entail sacrifice and your tax dollars (mine too), but I'm willing to make the investment for a more robust and secure America.

[KevinDavis]

Plus the fact, there are resources in space that can be used to better ourselves not found on Earth. I'm for private industry in space.

[Young Werther]

Astronaut Cernan was on Lou Dobbs last night. During the interview cernan mentioned that since a 77 year old colleague had returned to space he is working on a plan for a 17 year old to fly in space. this is very interesting since I happened to send an e-mail to Boy Scout Headquarters yesterday and suggested that the million strong Boy Socut organization could hold a fund raiser where each scout would try to sell, (cookies candy whatever) to net $20 per scout. The $20 Million raised would used to buy a Soyuz seat and allow one scout to camp out at the ISS for a coupla days!

I e-mailed Lou Dobbs and am trying to network to Cernan as well. I've communicated with NSS headqtrs in DC as well. John Travolta was the keynote speaker at the kick off of the Centennial of Flight ceremonies held by the Smithsonian. He is a noted flying afficiando and I tried to e-mail to him through one of his fan sites but...

If anyone can ehlp in this matter we can get the kids off the ground. My Space University proposal is at www.nssnt.org. Any help networking would be appreicated.

[johnny7]

Yes, this will entail sacrifice and your tax dollars (mine too),

Oh-oh... something wrong here. ALARM!

May the visions of sugar plums keep dancing in your head.

[Frank_Discussion]

MEMO

From: Queen Isabella
To: Mr. Christopher Columbus

RE: New Route to India

Chris, we've been considering your offer to find a new route to the spice merchants in India, and we're having second thoughts about funding the effort. We mean, there are a number of established roads and waterways that we can use to get there, so we don't see the need to develop new ones. Besides, spice consumption should remain level for the foreseeable future, and we seem to have enough to go around. It sure seems like a lot of danger to take on for such a small result.

Certainly, there couldn't be anything new to learn from such a voyage anyway, as Europe has already mapped the whole world, we're quite sure. This particular indisputable fact brings me to a suggestion for you: Perhaps you could map the coastlines of Europe for us. You know, travel back and forth along the shores for a few decades and really record the details.

We wish you excellent luck in whatever you do, Chris.

Royally Yours,

The Queen

[Brett66]

That sounds like a great idea, maybe some corporate sponsors would be interested. Probably in about 2-3 years it will be possible to buy a quick sub-orbital trip to the edge of space and back for around $90,000. Not as cool as staying on the ISS, but far more affordable and could be funded by bake sales, etc. Definitely affordable to corporate sponsors.

[Atlas Sneezed]

"Chris, we've been considering your offer to find a new route to the spice merchants in India, and we're having second thoughts about funding the effort."

But she DID fund it, because she stood to make money. Was it funded from her own wealth, or was there an income tax back in Spain for such things?

Secondly, even if Columbus had not gotten her funding, there is no evidence that other efforts would not have led to the development of the Americas. The market would have taken care of it.

[RightWhale]

Here's reality: We are at war. All thought of of a manned space program ended for this generation on WTC911. Nothing is going to happen in space development until we finish the war. Whether it is 4 or 20 or more years away, the war's end is when we can take a look around and decide to go to Mars, the moon, mine asteroids, and get out of the hellhole of earth.

[Brett66]

I don't think NASA will be doing anything substantive in space for at least 15 years. However the X-Prize contenders will be flying in 3 years or less. Transorbital will launch their Lunar sattelite next year. It's a very exciting time, as long as NASA isn't considered part of the development of space.

[Frank_Discussion]

Her money was Spain's money. Not an Income tax per se, but there you go.

I know she funded it, that's why I wrote it the way I did. All I'm trying to say is, government and private entities both have the views I satirized in the 'Memo', and try to imagine if it continues. Basically speaking, all exploration is speculative, and you never, ever know what you will find. Even Lewis and Clark explored (via government funding) without knowing what lies ahead, other than that there were probably more trees beyond the forests they could see in front of them. I think that whole boondoggle work out pretty well in the end.

As far as the market taking care of it, in Columbus' case it certainly did, as the Queen speculated on the potential market. Beyond that successful speculation a whole new HUGE continental landmass was a surprizing bonus.

Right now, we have a climate that says "there is no market" as far as space is concerned. The climate is wrong. No matter who funds it, it will take a speculative visualization of that market in space.

For what it's worth, I know private enterprise will really open the doors to development. It always has. Until that time, however, the very modest sums spent by the US government will just have to do, until private money and effort takes the reins.

[Frank_Discussion]

TransOrbital was to launch a structural test article today, I wonder how that's going?

[Frank_Discussion]

Yeah Baby! I will contact my Scoutmaster post haste!