Spare Jews (and others) the cult of victimization

Seattle Times ^ | Tuesday, December 03, 2002 | Froma Harrop - Syndicated columnist

[xJones]

"We have the Bible on our side,"

Really, St. Paul, you know, that Jew from Tarsus, wouldn't recognize it. And he wrote about two-thirds of the New Testament.

[junta]

Abe is the godfather of the tolerance mafia.

[William Terrell]

I think you've been very specific about where you're coming from.

Where am I coming from? Show me my posts that you think are specific?

Gentile Christians are "grafted in" branches. Read the Book of Romans, or Hebrews for starters. I don't need to claim some faux bloodline, completely unproven. We should appreciate all the sacrifice the Jews have been through, particularly the One whose birthday we're about to celebrate (and don't get into a argument about Dec. 25, that was a day that was picked).

Gentile Christians are grafted in. So what? You don't need to care about bloodlines, certainly, and neither do I, being a Christian. Then why does it worry you so much?

I'm debating the topic; you're reacting to it.

[xJones]

Why do you defend LostTribes constantly? If bloodlines don't matter then the business about celts being part of the Lost 10 Tribes is inmaterial, particularly because it can't be proved. Careful here...

[William Terrell]

Really, St. Paul, you know, that Jew from Tarsus, wouldn't recognize it. And he wrote about two-thirds of the New Testament.

Hopefully you aren't relying on Romans and Pauls reference to Hosea.

Are you aware that there are books that were left out of the Bible, not for reasons of authenticity? Paul features prominately in one of those books. Are yo aware he built churches in Europe?

[xJones]

Are yo aware he built churches in Europe?

He did a great ministry in Rome. Read the New Testament. Plus, there was his ministry in Greece and in what is now Turkey. If you're going to start dragging in other writings, we all can. "Harry Potter Meets Paul", would be a start.

Either you go with the established canon, or you bring in whatever you want. Joseph Smith had a very good time with that, and so have others.

[William Terrell]

Why do you defend LostTribes constantly? If bloodlines don't matter then the business about celts being part of the Lost 10 Tribes is inmaterial, particularly because it can't be proved. Careful here...

I used to see his posts on religous threads for months and a lot of reaction to them, not with any facts, just emotional reaction. This sort of thing attracts me. I want to give the theory a good airing and see if someone can come up with somthing concrete to refute it.

There are too many things that make sense about it and too much political upheaval in the world based on it's absense in truth. That is to say, I figure the world picture would be dramatically different if the theory were generally accepted, and for the good of all in the world. But certainly NOT for the Arabs and Islamisists. That's another attractive feature.

I will not drown in tears if it turns out to be false. I'm grafted anyway. But it is true, well, a lot of things on the world scene can be explained.

[LostTribe]

>The whole point of Tribe's diatribes is that celts are the chosen ones also, and can replace the Jews who have rejected Jesus. It's called Replacement theology

That my silly friend is bigoted slander. I DEFY you to find one line in all of my posts that says "celts are the chosen ones also, and can replace the Jews who have rejected Jesus".

When you cannot, you can make amends by posting your public apology here on this thread. Without that apology your bigotry, shallow intellect and dishonesty are established and all can see that you have no credibility.

[xJones]

I used to see his posts on religous threads for months and a lot of reaction to them, not with any facts, just emotional reaction. This sort of thing attracts me. I want to give the theory a good airing and see if someone can come up with somthing concrete to refute it.

You can't have read too many LostTribe replies. I particularly liked the little dancing figure and the (ggg) replies to objectors. His main proof seems to be that he's visited the British Musuem, whatever that implies. You might be more concerned in trying to dig up any evidence of his claims. This would require a great deal of work.

[xJones]

That my silly friend is bigoted slander. I DEFY you to find one line in all of my posts that says "celts are the chosen ones also, and can replace the Jews who have rejected Jesus".

I've never seen you post that specifically, although I don't read all your posts, nobody could.

But are celts equal heirs through bloodlines to the promises of Abraham?

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

God has concluded ALL in unbelief that He might have mercy upon ALL. Romans. 11:32
Their is neither JEW or Greek bond or free ALL are ONE in Christ JESUS. Galatians 3:28-29.
BE it known therefore unto you that the salvation of GOD is sent unto the GENTILES and THEY WILL HEAR IT. ACTS 28:25-28

Gentiles without Christ, Aliens from the comonwealth of ISRAEL, now made near by the blood of CHRIST..Eph 2:11- 15, also the rest of the chapter.

[skraeling]

You can't have read too many LostTribe replies.

Well I have read most of them over the years and I can't recall any comment which even faintly resembles what you are allegeing. It looks to me like you need to get your mouth under control until your head catches up. It is one thing to debate the facts but quite another to just mindlessly throw rocks.

Your scatterbrained accusations and ravings are about as welcome (and as appropriate) as a fart in church.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Why is it ANNA of the tribe of ASHER, one of the so called lost tribes was in Jerusalem when Jesus was dedicated in the temple? Luke 2:36
Again, If Christ was sent to only the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL why was he not born where they were, in Europe instead of Judea? Why did he spend all of his time there instead of Europe! Read it!

[xJones]

Preach it, brother. And Merry Christmas to you and yours. If you don't mind, I'll repost those beautiful words:

God has concluded ALL in unbelief that He might have mercy upon ALL. Romans. 11:32

There is neither JEW or Greek bond or free ALL are ONE in Christ JESUS. Galatians 3:28-29.

BE it known therefore unto you that the salvation of GOD is sent unto the GENTILES and THEY WILL HEAR IT. ACTS 28:25-28

Gentiles without Christ, Aliens from the comonwealth of ISRAEL, now made near by the blood of CHRIST..Eph 2:11- 15, also the rest of the chapter.

[xJones]

Your scatterbrained accusations and ravings are about as welcome (and as appropriate) as a fart in church.

Thank you.

[skraeling]

Now please, stop annoying everyone with your posting and contant reposting of the same nonsense. Thanks--we appreciate it.

Where do you come off with this arrogance, sonny? This is an open board so only the owner decides who posts and what. Either post your Title Documents to Free Republic or stifle yourself. Don't like it here, there are lots of other threads to visit and make enemies.

[Kaafi]

So,so true.

Even that i am not an American i am insulted by terms like:
Jewish-American. Or when pepole say Jewish pepole instead of Jews.

I just can't stand all that hpocritical political correctness.

[Pharmboy]

We have the Bible on our side, which presents certain prophesies that make certain conditions manditory and certain conclusions inevitable. And, if you don't believe the Bible, why even worry about the lost tribes at all? They are only important in a context of theology.

I find history quite interesting and the LTs are an historical fact; so are the Celts. They just have nothing to do with each other (aside from a friend of mine who is half Jewish and half Irish). Celtic is an Indo-Euro language and not semitic; you can twist anything else you want to get at this tortured conclusion (which is obviously agenda-driven), but i will continue to rely on the best facts that I can muster.

I would have no problem AT ALL with Celts or Hottentots actually being the LTs if it were true.

Ironically enough, there is reasonably good evidence that the Pashtan of Afghanistan are (at least some) the LTs.

From this web site: http://www.sinaifreesynagogue.org/messeng.html

After 9/11, pictures of the Afghani people were shown regularly on television. When looking into these faces I noticed something strangely familiar -- and knew I had to do some research.

Could these people be the descendants of the lost tribes of Israel? Strange but quite possibly true. The physical resemblance between the Pathan tribes of Afghanistan and the Jewish people is remarkable. In fact the British who ruled Afghanistan for many years called the Pathans Jews. Pathans grow beards and sidelocks which make them indistinguishable from Jews. They are fairer in color than other Muslims, and some even have blue eyes and blond hair.

In 586 BCE the majority of the people in the northern kingdom of Israel were forced into exile by the Assyrians. Here is where the journey begins, most likely starting in Iran then migrating through the whole Pakistan Afghanistan area. Jews have lived in Afghanistan since biblical times. As years went on they were forced to convert to Islam.

But Judaic customs die hard. Though the history of these people may have died, the customs still stay strong. One just has to watch television to see the similarities. A Pashtan child at birth is circumcised on the 7th day of life; other Muslims are circumcised at 12 years of age. The Pashtan wear a small tallit-type garment that has four corners to which they tie strings (very similar to tzitzit). They also wear a larger tallit-type garment to cover their heads and shoulders. Some Pashtans wear a small box similar to that of tefillin. They follow customs very similar to Shabbat: a candle is lit to usher in the Shabbat which is considered a day of rest. They do not work, cook, or bake. The candle is lit by the oldest woman of the family.

Some kosher laws prevail. They do not eat horses or camel. There is even a tradition regarding pure and impure birds, similar to that in the Torah. The Pashtan people still carry family names of the lost tribes of Israel such as Asher, Gad, and Reuben. Also found are first names such as Israel and Samuel, which are never found among other Muslims. The legal system of the Pashtans is very similar to that of the Torah. The tribal laws are very different from other Moslem groups.

There are many other similarities between Pashtan and Jewish life. In a Pashtan wedding, the ceremony includes a marriage canopy. The women keep laws similar to the orthodox which forbids contact with husbands during menstruation and immersion in water (mikvah). The Pashtan have customs very similar to that of Yom Kippur. They still keep the custom of scapegoat which was followed in ancient Israel, putting sins on a goat and sending it away. During time of plague the Pashtan still slaughter a goat and put its blood on their doorposts. And even though they are devout Muslims, some even pray facing Jerusalem, or pray at old Jewish temple grounds touching the gates and walls during prayer.

With this information, the next time you watch a TV report what will you see? Will you see people who are waiting to find their true heritage again? Are they doing what they do in anger to fill the emptiness in their lives, the need to find their true identity? Are they our brethren begging us to help them find their way home to God? Is it not our responsibility to help them in this endeavor? Sh'ma Israel.

Roslyn Porcelli

[LostTribe]

When evaluating the various "theories" about what happened to the Lost Tribes of Israel it's important to determine who is coming from where, who's Ox is being gored, and who has the most to lose.  It doesn't take a lot of imagination to figure out in whose interest it is that the Lost Tribes never be found.  If they are never found, then there is no problem. Lost Tribes tell no tales.

An alternate to keeping the Lost Tribes lost is to "find them", but not in their Biblical form as a Huge Israelite Nation now grown much larger, but perhaps as a scabby little tribe of desert nomads huddled around campfires, watering their camels and picking their noses.  Now they would be harmless (and controllable) enough.

Better yet, "find" them as a number of small (but controllable) groups of obscure people, scattered here and there around the world.  If they practise circumcision they are sure fire candidates, even though that was an Abrahamic practise, not starting with Jews.  The important thing is to divert attention away from the REAL Lost Tribes, to dilute the issue.  Dilute it enough and it goes away.

To those ends, various books, TV specials, even computer games have been created in an attempt to "address and control" the Lost Tribes issue, which becomes stronger each year as Archeological finds continue to confirm the accuracy of the Bible.  Amazingly, these media devices always do manage to find some obscure Tribes, but never the REAL Lost Tribes of Israel which are the ~One BILLION American and Europeans of Celtic origin.

The TV special "Quest For The Lost Tribes" shown on A&E was an especially egregious example of raw political propagada, offered with a straight face worthy of the Clinton administration.  You can sometimes spot probable bias by simply noting the sponsoring organizations, or the producers and other participants.  This one was a hoot.  Be sure to watch it the next time it comes around, just to observe how they skirt the real issues.

Also observe who offers apparently sound and logical analysis of solid Biblical and Historical sources for your consideration and checking, and who offers only shouting, ridicule, name calling, hollow claims without evidence, and intellectual terrorism.  That says a lot.

-LT

[xJones]

It doesn't take a lot of imagination to figure out in whose interest it is that the Lost Tribes never be found.

Oh, spell it out for those of little imgination. In whose best interests would it be if the Lost Tribes were never found?