Spare Jews (and others) the cult of victimization

Seattle Times ^ | Tuesday, December 03, 2002 | Froma Harrop - Syndicated columnist

[Pharmboy]

AH! Ya gots me...I'm done for now...(but watch it: that Noo Yawk Detective is still on yer trail)

[Eva]

Actually, I have known lots of Jews with red/blonde hair and freckles.

As a matter of fact, Lefty Rosenthal (the guy from the book, Casino) had red hair and both his kids were blonde.

[LostTribe]

> I have known lots of Jews with red/blonde hair and freckles.

David is described in the OT as "ruddy and fair". Sounds like a red-headed Irishman to me. {ggg}. Of course David wasn't a Jew. But he was an Israelite.

[Eva]

I am getting more confused with each post. David wasn't a Jew? That is why the Muslims can claim Abraham as their ancestor, because he was a descendat of Shem, as was David? Ah, but there were no Jews, then? So, Jews are Israelites, but all Israelites were not Jews?

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

"The worlds ISRAELITE and JEW are not interchangeable."

(Lots of people seem to have trouble understanding that. Maybe they never really thought about it before.)

Nonsense!
Let's put it to the BIBLE test:
Jehoshaphat, king of JUDAH IIChron.20:35
Jehoshaphat King of ISRAEL II Chron 21:1&2

Ahaz reigned in JERUSALEM as KING II Chron 28:1
Ahaz King of ISRAEL II Chron 28:19

Nicodemus, a ruler of the JEWS...John 3:1
Jesus called him a master in ISRAEL John 3:10

Paul an ISRAELITE of the tribe of BENJAMIN (a Jewish tribe.) Romans 11:1, II Cor 11:22

Paul and Peter JEWS. Acts 21:39-22:3, Gal 2:15.

Jesus Christ a ISRAELITE who sprang from JUDAH. Romans 9:4&5 ( for that matter, read the whole chapter) Hebrews 7:14.
A large migration from the Northern kingdom to the south occured IIChron 11:3-5,13-16, 15:8,9.
ALL Judah and Israel were at the Passover feast II Chron 35:16-18.
On the return from Babylon at the dedication of the rebuilt temple a sin offering was offered for ALL ISRAEL Ezra 6:17, 7:28, 8:25.
Peter: Ye men of JUDAH..Acts 2:14.
..all the house of ISRAEL..Acts2:36.
And who can ignore Ezek 37:15-28.
JESUS..I am not sent but unto the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. Matthew 15:24.
So,why was he born in JUDEA instead of Europe where the so called lost tribes are supposed to be?
Jesus..."Go not in the way of the Gentiles and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: but go rather to the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. Matthew 10:5-7...Obviously, they did NOT go to Europe!

And so much more...Just read the INSTRUCTIONS!

[Pharmboy]

C'mon--this was just for Lost Tribe's silly obsession. He has been raving on and on without stopping about how the Irish and all the Celts are the lost tribes of Israel.

My post was done with tongue firmly in cheek.

[LostTribe]

>I am getting more confused with each post.

Hang in there Eva. {ggg}.

>David wasn't a Jew?

That's correct.  David was an Israelite like all of those Israelites he ruled in the Kingdom of Israel around 1,000 BC.

It was not until 933 BC the Kingdom split into North and South.  The Northern 10 Tribes were later known as The Lost Tribes Of Israel after they were captured by the Assrians.

The Southern Kingdom was made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi.  After the Southern Kingdom was captured, evacuated to Babylon and returned to Jerusalem, the MIXTURE of the peoples of those returned tribes became known as "Jews".

The word "Jew" came from Judea, where they were located when captured. The word Judea in turn came from the name Judah, after the name of the largest tribe in the Southern Kingdom.  The name Judah (as in the tribe) comes from the man Judah, one of the 12 sons of Israel, but who was dead for over a thousand years before the name "Jew" was used.

>That is why the Muslims can claim Abraham as their ancestor, because he was a descendat of Shem, as was David?

They are Hebrews, and Semites, but not Israelites or (later for a few) Jews.

>So, Jews are Israelites, but all Israelites were not Jews?

You got it!

[LostTribe]

>...I am not sent but unto the LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL.

If I may:

What is a Gentile?

There is a lot of misunderstanding about the meaning of the word GENTILE and it's proper use. GENTILE is a generic word. Like the words FOREIGNER and STRANGER it has no specific meaning until the user gives it a specific context. A Foreigner to one person is a Countryman to another. A Stranger to one person is a Friend to another. A Gentile to one group of people is a Relative of another group. GENTILE simply means "not one of us", or "not one of our group". Mormons call non-Mormons "Gentiles", and Jews call non-Jews "Gentiles". But outside a specific context the word Gentile does not stand on it's own. When used as slang, "Gentiles" are (1) Any who are "uninitiated", as in amateurs or neophites, (2) Those who are naive, like potential victims, or clients, (3) Anyone not of our group, like competing sports teams or competing companies. For Example: The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel are a unique sub-set of Gentiles who are Israelites, but are not Jews. Viewed from a Jewish perspective, being non-Jews they are Gentiles. But viewed from an Israelite perspective they are not Gentiles but fellow Israelites. Matthew 10:5-6 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. But go rather to the Lost Sheep of The House of Israel." We need to remember the Title House of Israel was assigned to the Northern Kingdom when the Davidic Kingdom split. The Northern Kingdom was never Jewish, therefore Jesus command to go FIRST to the Lost Sheep of The House of Israel was NOT a command to go first to lost Jews. Jesus was both an Israelite and a Jew. He said "do not go to Israelite Gentiles." (That is, "do not go to non-Israelites.") A common misinterpretation has Him referring to Jewish Gentiles, saying "do not go to non-Jews." That is not correct. The (post Davidic) House of Israel soon became The Lost Tribes of Israel who won their freedom from the Assyrians ~610 BC. These 5 MILLION Israelites spread quickly to the West and North as they exploded into history as The CELTS, later known as Europeans and Americans. It was to these non-Jewish Israelites in Galatia, Ephesus, Corinth, etc. that Jesus first sent his 12 apostles. These Northern Kingdom Israelites were not Jews, but were Gentiles in the Jewish sense. However they were not Gentiles in the Israelite sense because as offspring of Jacob/Israel they WERE Israelites. This huge Celtic Kingdom of Israelites was simply called the The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. These ISRAELITE CELTIC GENTILES made up the bulk of the early Christians and their offspring are the backbone of Christianity today. All the promises their ancestors received as Israelites are still good, for Gods inheritance has no statute of limitations.

[LostTribe]

Maybe you would be so good as to point out SPECIFICALLY where you find "nonesense". Let's take the first 5 paragraphs first to keep it organized. Your move:

It's Your Move!

[Pharmboy]

Will THESE facts finally quiet your silly obsession? (Somehow, I think not)

Click here for source

Two new groups of people emerge in Central Europe during the late Neolithic (New Stone Age) period, one certainly immigrant. Each group may be distinguished archaeologically by characteristic artifacts found in their respective burial sites. One was a Bell Beaker or drinking vessel. We now refer to this group as the Beaker folk. There is still some doubt as to the origins of the Beaker folk, some say Iberia, and some say Central Europe itself. Never-the-less it is believed that they emerge as an independent cultural group around 3000 B.C.E..

The second group is characterized by a perforated battle-axe of stone. Similarly, we now refer to this group as the Battle-Axe folk. Evidence points towards origins in the steppe-lands of southern Russia, between the Caucasus and the Carpathian mountains. The Battle-Axe folk may be attributed with the initial spread of the Indo-European group of languages. (see diagram) The Indo-European group of languages encompasses most of those current in present-day Europe. In Central Europe the Beaker folk and Battle-Axe folk fused to become one European people. Shortly thereafter began the Bronze Age in Europe. It is unclear whether the arrival of the two groups influenced the arrival of the Bronze Age or not. Many think that contact with the Mediterranean and beyond may have influenced this.

From this period onwards the line of continuity which leads directly to the historic Celts may be traced from the archaeological evidence. This is identified by the successive Únêtice, Tumulus and Urnfield cultures of the Central European Bronze Age. The Únêtice culture appears to have emerged from the fusion of Battle-Axe and Beaker peoples and their immediate descendants. The Únêtice culture became the pre-eminent culture in Central Europe by the middle of the second millennium B.C.E.. Because of rich mineral deposits and control of trade routes between the south-east (early Mediterranean cultures) and the more distant parts of Europe, the Únêtice people prospered.

The Tumulus culture which followed the Únêtice, and from which they descended, dominated Central Europe during much of the second part of the second millenium B.C.E.. As the name implies, the Tumulus culture is distinguished by the practice of burying the dead beneath burial mounds. During this period trade contacts with the south-east remained intact and were probably expanded. The Tumulus culture flourished without any disruption of local peoples by large-scale immigration. This was to end, however, toward the close of the second millennium B.C.E., when there is evidence of wide-spread disruption which affected the "higher civilizations" to the south-east and curbed trade.

With the emergence of the Urnfield culture of Central Europe, there appear a people whom some scholars regard as being 'proto-Celtic', in that they may have spoken an early form of Celtic. As the name suggests, the people of the Urnfield culture cremated their dead and placed the remains in urns which were buried in flat cemeteries without any covering mound. The period of the Urnfield culture, like that of the Tumulus culture, was one of expansion, particularly during the first millennium B.C.E. It is during the period of the Urnfield culture that the Bronze Age was at its peek in Central Europe. They produced weapons, tools, eating and cooking vessels, etc. all out of Bronze. From the Urnfield Culture, the Celts emerge as an agricultural people.

Whereas the Urnfield people may justifiably be considered to have been proto-Celtic, their descendants in Central Europe, the people of the Hallstatt culture, were certainly fully Celtic. The Hallstatt culture and its successor, that of La Tène, together represent the iron-using prehistoric peoples of much of Europe. These are the Keltoi, the Galli and Galatae of classical writers. The two cultures are named after sites at which were found archaeological artifacts now considered to be representative of a particular stage of each culture. Hallstatt is a village in Central Austria at which was found an important cemetery; La Tène is near the north-eastern end of Lake Neuchâtel, in western Switzerland. In rough terms the Hallstatt culture existed from approximately 1200 to 500 B.C.E., with some overlap of the Urnfield culture. The La Tène culture in the parts of Europe which would soon become part of the Roman Empire ended with the arrival of the Romans. Beyond the Empire, such as Ireland and Northern Britain (modern day Scotland) the La Tène culture flourished until about 200 C.E..

Or, perhaps this one will do. Why oh why do the Celts not speak a semitic language? Facts are different than speculation Lost boy...

ON THE ORIGINS AND PREHISTORY OF THE CELTS

Kalevi Wiik

My basic assumption is that the Indo-European (IE) languages spread from the Balkans to Central Europe and the central area of the Mediterranean coast in the wake of agriculture. In the first phase (c. 7000-5500 BC), the spread was based mainly on demic diffusion; the result was the LBK culture in Central Europe and the Impressed Ware cultures in the Mediterranean zone.

Two different dialects of the IE language were spoken by the populations of these cultures: a northern or Central European one in the LBK culture and a southern or Mediterranean one in the Mediterranean zone. In the next phase (c. 5500-4000 BC), agriculture and the IE language spread mainly as cultural diffusion (acculturation and language shifts) to northern and western Europe. In these more peripheral areas, two new branches of the IE language emerged: in the north, the IE language was learned by the native speakers of the Finno-Ugric (FU) languages, and in the west, mainly by those of the Basque (Bs) languages. The results were the Germano-Balto-Slavic (GBS) branch having a FU substratum and the Italo-Celtic (IC) branch having a Bs substratum. Later, the two branches were further split into the Germanic (G), Baltic (B), and Slavic (S) languages in the former case, and into the Italic (I) and Celtic (C) ones in the latter case. The first Celts, therefore, are the Basque-speaking hunters of western Europe who adopted agriculture and the IE language from the LBK culture and the Impressed Ware cultures. The area formed a chain of Celtic dialects: in the north (Rhine area) the dialects were based on the LBK (Central European) dialect of the IE language, while in the south (eastern Iberia and southern France), they were based on the Impressed Ware (Mediterranean) dialect of that language. In addition, the substrata of the non-IE languages were different along the chain of the Celtic dialects: the northern dialect had a Basque substratum, while the more southern dialects had a Basque, Iberian, or Tartessian substratum. The result was the following chain of Celtic dialects/languages: Lusitanian - Celtiberian - Gaul - Lepontic.

During the Bell Beaker period (c. 2800-1800 BC), the Celtic language was used as a lingua franca by the populations of Western Europe. It was the language of the élite of the Copper Age (Bronze Age). The centre of the Celtic world was in the Únìtice culture in 1800-1500 BC, in the Urnfield culture in 1200-800 BC, in the Hallstatt culture in 800-500 BC, and in the La Tène culture in 500-50 BC. The Celtic lingua franca was based on different Celtic dialects during the six different cultural periods mentioned.

The Celtic world collapsed and the Celtic lingua franca lost its significance with the rise of the Roman Empire and the Germanic world. The area of the Celtic language spoken as the first language shrank rapidly. The Celtic languages left substrata in many European languages, for example, in High German and English.

Essential questions to be answered are: When did the Celtic language arrive in the British Isles? What non-IE languages were spoken in the British Isles before the arrival of Celtic? What happened to the Celts in Central Europe and the British Isles?

Check mate, mate!

[LostTribe]

That's a pretty good site.  I refer people to it all the time.  But you clearly need to actually READ the site and see how much it confirms.

Now, instead of continuing to duck the topic by cutting and pasting from someone elses site, tell us all, in your own words, SPECIFICALLY where you find "nonesense".  Let's take the first 5 paragraphs first to keep it organized. 

Time has come to put your money where your mouth is.  It's your move:

                        
3-MINUTE HISTORY OF THE ISRAELITES

Four Thousand years ago, Abraham (a great-great grandson of Shem, a son of Noah) and a small group of Hebrews (of which there were & are many varieties) migrated from southern Iraq to Canaan (~Palestine). Several generations later, around 1853 BC, his Grandson Jacob (who was renamed Israel) and his 12 Sons and families moved to Egypt. As offspring of Shem, they were called "Shemites" or "Semites", as were his many other offspring.

~1453 BC, now as the 12 Tribes of the 12 Sons of Israel, and over 3 Million strong, these Semites bailed out of Egypt in the well-documented overland EXODUS and fled back to ~Palestine.  But the Tribes "couldn't all get along" there, so ~922 BC these 5 Million Israelites split into the Northern and Southern Kingdoms.

(In actual numbers, 5 Million people is about the same size as Ireland, Norway, Denmark or Israel today, and was 10% of the estimated 50 Million world population at that time. The world population is now ONE HUNDRED TIMES as large. Compared to todays 6 Billion people, the Israelites relative population would have been over twice as large as the United States of America!)

The very large Northern Kingdom of Israel was made up of 10 of the Tribes. Inheriting the Kingly names which applied to all 12 Tribes before the split, the Northern Kingdom (alone) becomes known as the Kingdom of Israel or House of Israel, (also House of Joseph, House of Ephriam, House of Isaac, and House of Omri), and is led by the northern Tribe of Ephraim.

Two hundred years later these Northern Israelites were taken into captivity by the Assyrians (~722 BC) and relocated to the northern Fertile Crescent area of Iraq/Iran. They were not diligent in updating their eMail addresses, thus were called, by some, the "Lost Tribes", or "Lost Sheep" or "Lost Children" of the Kingdom or House of Israel. (However at ~1/12 or more of the worlds population it seems unlikely they would actually disappear, or get "lost". The global population now ~75 Million.)

A hundred years later, this "lost" Northern Kingdom of Israel with now over 6 Million Israelites helped the Medes and Persians overthrow the Assyrians, then escaped north through the Caucasus Mountains and around the Black and Caspian Seas, to explode into history ~610 BC as The Celts. These Celts mixed with (and fought against) each other, and with other scattered Israelites (proto-Celts) who had escaped from Egypt by sea nearly a thousand years earlier, before the overland Exodus. Also, with other Israelites who migrated from Palestine after the overland Exodus but before the Assyrian captivity and who had already established numerous outposts in Europe and elsewhere.

These Millions of Celts grew to become Tens, then Hundreds of Millions as they migrated in waves westward and northwest to Galatia, Ephesus, Corinth, Thessalonika, Phillipi, Collosse, to what is today Hallstatt, Austria and Neuchatel, Switzerland (where exist major Celtic digs and museums) and beyond, to totally dominate Northern and Western Europe. These Celts (also as Cimmerians, Scythians, Danaoi, Massagetae, Milesians, Masilia, Sarmatians, Germani, Goths, Franks, Gauls, Lombards, Belgae, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vandals, Danes, Normans, and other assorted "Barbarians") are the rootstock of today's Europeans and Americans who became the backbone of global Christianity.

The much smaller Southern Kingdom was made up of the Tribe of Judah & a mix of Levites and Benjamites. It was also known as the Kingdom of Judah or House of Judah. These Southern Israelites (aka Judeans) were taken captive in ~587 BC and removed to Babylon. Only ~50,000 Judeans returned to Palestine ~70 years later. They and their offspring are called Jews.

[LostTribe]

This is not a bad entry level site on the Celts for careful readers. Intro to Celtic History. But it's important to understand Israelite History first, in order to put the Celts in proper perspective.

[Pharmboy]

Posted by LostTribe to Pharmboy On News/Activism 12/17/2002 9:57 AM PST #31 of 31

That's a pretty good site. I refer people to it all the time. But you clearly need to actually READ the site and see how much it confirms.

I send you TWO sites with consistent information on the origins of the Celts and you totally ignore all that is containded therein! There is NOTHING about semites on those sources.

Now, instead of continuing to duck the topic by cutting and pasting from someone elses site, tell us all, in your own words, SPECIFICALLY where you find "nonesense". Let's take the first 5 paragraphs first to keep it organized.

I did not "cut and paste" anything; all that I posted was taken as a block from the sites; I provided the links, go see for yourself...

Time has come to put your money where your mouth is. It's your move:

3-MINUTE HISTORY OF THE ISRAELITES
Four Thousand years ago, Abraham (a great-great grandson of Shem, a son of Noah) and a small group of Hebrews (of which there were & are many varieties) migrated from southern Iraq to Canaan (~Palestine). Several generations later, around 1853 BC, his Grandson Jacob (who was renamed Israel) and his 12 Sons and families moved to Egypt. As offspring of Shem, they were called "Shemites" or "Semites", as were his many other offspring.

Assigning strict dates ("around 1853 BC") is laughable when it come to the Old Testament; further, using the OT as an accurate historical document is plain silly.

~1453 BC, now as the 12 Tribes of the 12 Sons of Israel, and over 3 Million strong,

3 million strong? Oh really? Where do you get this stuff from??

these Semites bailed out of Egypt in the well-documented overland EXODUS and fled back to ~Palestine. But the Tribes "couldn't all get along" there, so ~922 BC these 5 Million Israelites split into the Northern and Southern Kingdoms.

(In actual numbers, 5 Million people is about the same size as Ireland, Norway, Denmark or Israel today, and was 10% of the estimated 50 Million world population at that time. The world population is now ONE HUNDRED TIMES as large. Compared to todays 6 Billion people, the Israelites relative population would have been over twice as large as the United States of America!)

Where did we get 5 million people? You can't just make this stuff up--there are such things as FACTS (something with which you are not well-acquainted).

The very large Northern Kingdom of Israel was made up of 10 of the Tribes. Inheriting the Kingly names which applied to all 12 Tribes before the split, the Northern Kingdom (alone) becomes known as the Kingdom of Israel or House of Israel, (also House of Joseph, House of Ephriam, House of Isaac, and House of Omri), and is led by the northern Tribe of Ephraim.

Two hundred years later these Northern Israelites were taken into captivity by the Assyrians (~722 BC) and relocated to the northern Fertile Crescent area of Iraq/Iran. They were not diligent in updating their eMail addresses, thus were called, by some, the "Lost Tribes", or "Lost Sheep" or "Lost Children" of the Kingdom or House of Israel. (However at ~1/12 or more of the worlds population it seems unlikely they would actually disappear, or get "lost". The global population now ~75 Million.)

A hundred years later, this "lost" Northern Kingdom of Israel with now over 6 Million Israelites helped the Medes and Persians overthrow the Assyrians, then escaped north through the Caucasus Mountains and around the Black and Caspian Seas, to explode into history ~610 BC as The Celts.

This is my FAVORITE part...reference for this idiocy?? The Celts had been around for a while--but if they spoke a language anywhere resembling a semitic tongue, then it would be interesting, but this is a loser; get over it.

These Celts mixed with (and fought against) each other, and with other scattered Israelites (proto-Celts) who had escaped from Egypt by sea nearly a thousand years earlier, before the overland Exodus. Also, with other Israelites who migrated from Palestine after the overland Exodus but before the Assyrian captivity and who had already established numerous outposts in Europe and elsewhere.

Pure Barbra Streisand.

Now please, stop annoying everyone with your posting and contant reposting of the same nonsense. Thanks--we appreciate it.

[LostTribe]

>using the OT as an accurate historical document is plain silly.

That's all I need to know. Goodbye. Have a Merry whateveritis you may believe in.

[Pharmboy]

Whatever it is I believe in cannot even BEGIN to match the unadulterated claptrap that you continually spew. Get a life.

[PaulKersey]

HaHaHa. I think you just got invoked the "Do not cast pearls before swine" clause. Care for another ham sandwitch?

[xJones]

ggg (whatever that means). The whole point of Tribe's diatribes is that celts are the chosen ones also, and can replace the Jews who have rejected Jesus. It's called Replacement theology and is a particular favorite with white supremist groupies. Tribe is a one-trick pony, he only knows one topic and it's nonsense.

[William Terrell]

ggg (whatever that means). The whole point of Tribe's diatribes is that celts are the chosen ones also, and can replace the Jews who have rejected Jesus. It's called Replacement theology and is a particular favorite with white supremist groupies. Tribe is a one-trick pony, he only knows one topic and it's nonsense.

Where in the world do you get this stuff, British Israleism and Christian Identity sites? Replace Jews that thave rejected Jesus? You want to show one single post that would say the folks arguing migration of the tribes into Europe advocate any such like? They use some of the basic information, that's as far as it goes.

A fertilizer plant put out smells like baking ham, but it's not baking ham. Maybe you should blow your nose. Why are you so full of hatred, and fear that European types might share the covenant of Abraham? What's wrong with that? Be specific.

[xJones]

Why are you so full of hatred, and fear that European types might share the covenant of Abraham? What's wrong with that? Be specific.

I think you've been very specific about where you're coming from.

Gentile Christians are "grafted in" branches. Read the Book of Romans, or Hebrews for starters. I don't need to claim some faux bloodline, completely unproven. We should appreciate all the sacrifice the Jews have been through, particularly the One whose birthday we're about to celebrate (and don't get into a argument about Dec. 25, that was a day that was picked).

[William Terrell]

Hummm, basic assumptions. Would you like a list of the basic assumptions that have turned out to be flat wrong in history? You reckon he took into consideration the Assyrian texts? You think he considered the 139 readily identified Hebrew words in English and 44 in Welsh? You think he was aware that you can take any sentence in Hebrew and change it, word for word, phrase for phrase, with out altering a single word or phrase into Gaelic and have the correct Gaelic idiom every time?

You think he was aware of any of these facts? Of course not. He has a theory based on the information he's aware of, like us all. It's a problem with interpreting the scattered shards of ancient history when so may things rot and breakdown over the years, much less the centuries.

It appears you cast around in desperation. Why you would be "desperate" is a mystery. Why not the European type populations being the descendents of the LT? What's so bad about it that gets you folks (and there are many like you) in such a foaming lather?

We have the Bible on our side, which presents certain prophesies that make certain conditions manditory and certain conclusions inevitable. And, if you don't believe the Bible, why even worry about the lost tribes at all? They are only important in a context of theology.