US Conservatives dispute Bush’s portrayal of Islam

The Indian Express ^ | 12/9/02 | Dana Milbank

[Luis Gonzalez]

Yahweh had no son either, so the Jews say.

Are Jews the anti-Christ?

[Luis Gonzalez]

There you go, attacking the messenger!

I never quesationed the Bible, I questioned your knowledge of the Koran, and took you to the carpet on the propaganda you are busy spreading.

Are Jews the anti-Christ?

[Jael]

"I posted what the Koran says about Jesus, and it coincides with what the Jews say about Jesus."

You say that. You don't prove it.

Genesis 12:2  And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3  And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

[Angelus Errare]

"Obviously, it all depends on what the meaning of is, is."

If you say so.

"'Propaganda' is the operative word."

Indeed. And judging from the utter lack of any kind of coherent research by FR's self-styled Muslim "experts" (whose arguments would be all but demolished if they ever ran up against a real imam), I feel it'd be an appropriate description.

"I understand realpolitik, I understand you, and your ilk."

Uh-huh. You won't hear the black helicopters coming until they're already gone ...

"Talk about fourteen centuries of islam's ACTIONS."

Altogether? A fairly mixed bag, like most religions, with some good and some bad. I tend to think they're wrong on a lot of their theology and doctrine (which is why I'm Catholic), but that doesn't mean they have to be fit into some kind of a ridiculous caricature. Also, because of the varying interpretations within Islam, I think that any attempt to lable it is a case of mixing apples and oranges at best.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"You say that. You don't prove it."

Are you arguing that Jews believe Christ to be the Son of God?

[Jael]

"Initially, I tolerated a lot of this stuff as a natural reaction to the War on Terror (i.e. frustration could translate into the occasional "Nuke Mecca!" crack), but when people started getting rather disturbingly serious ideas about all Muslims being part of some massive conspiracy to destroy the West (a la "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" with "Muslim" substituted for "Jew") and talk of exterminating Islam en masse, I felt the need to pipe up."

Next time you want to make claims such as that, please identify the victims of your slander.

[BenR2]

I think Bush is correct. Islam is a religion of peace, provided you have any amount of reason.

One can take a fairy tales and turn them into an ideology of destruction and terror. Demeaning Mohammed or his followers for September 11, 2001, is stupid foolishness and the work of those driven by hate themselves.

All religions have been known to commit excess in God's name. However, that does not mean that the religion, its founders, or God is to blame.

And I would surmise that you are a rather transparent apologist for the religion that has bred more terror in the past 20 years than all other religions combined -- with the possible exception of the "Communist" religion.

[Angelus Errare]

You do realize that the verse you just cited can be applied to _all_ of Abraham's descendants, including the Ishmaelites (i.e. the Arabs).

In the any case, I thought you were going to bed?

I certainly am. I'll check back in tomorrow morning.

[Jael]

One day they will. And they know that God has a Son, which Islam denies and rejects completely. Of course Allah is not Jehovah.

Therein lies the difference.

[BenR2]

Whenever Bush or some other idiotic person in his naive Administration issues some sugar coated, politically correct basura about Islam being civil and peaceful in this day and age when even the Europeans are starting to wake up and its all over the Northeast Asian press in clear language as a matter-of-fact (that this indeed is a backward, uncivil, violent word plague), we on Free Republic ought to tag the thread as

"TROPCRAP ALERT"i.e., (T)he (R)eligion (O)f (P)eace (Crap)

TROPCRAP Alert Bump!

[Jael]

"I never quesationed the Bible, I questioned your knowledge of the Koran, and took you to the carpet on the propaganda you are busy spreading."

Sure you did. I showed you from the Koran that they lie about Jesus. I showed you what the Bible says about that. They are antichrist. That's just reality.

The only propaganda around here is yours. Which is really sad. A long time ago when I lurked here I thought you were one of the good guys.

I see now you are just a fake.

[Luis Gonzalez]

5.12] And certainly Allah made a covenant with the children of Israel, and We raised up among them twelve chieftains; and Allah said: Surely I am with you; if you keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and believe in My apostles and asslst them and offer to Allah a goodly gift, I will most certainly cover your evil deeds, and I will most certainly cause you to enter into gardens beneath which rivers flow, but whoever disbelieves from among you after that, he indeed shall lose the right way.

[5.13] But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others).

[5.14] And with those who say, We are Christians, We made a covenant, but they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of, therefore We excited among them enmity and hatred to the day of resurrection; and Allah will inform them of what they did.

~~~~~~~

[5.82] Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.

[philman_36]

"War is deception," Mohammed said.
BS! Try Sun Tzu! All warfare is based on deception.
You can't be serious!

[BenR2]

You do realize that the verse you just cited can be applied to _all_ of Abraham's descendants, including the Ishmaelites (i.e. the Arabs).

That would be true, possibly, had the LORD Himself not said otherwise in Genesis 21:12:

12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

[Angelus Errare]

"Next time you want to make claims such as that, please identify the victims of your slander."

If you want to contend that there haven't been comments to that effect, I encourage you look at just about any thread discussing Islam or al-Qaeda terrorist attacks. They really aren't all that hard to find and I'll be more than happy to pull them up for you.

In this very thread we have:

"By its own holy book mohammedism is exposed as a cult and an inherently evil organization."

"Islam is a cult of death."

"That was one of his better points as he's also the founder of an insane satanic murdeous cult, islam."

"islam is death, and will have to be eradicated."

Presumably the "eradication" of Islam, as its followers are not planning to renounce it any time soon, is going to involve killing lots of dead Muslims and ignite a global religious war between the West and Islam. Sounds to me that if that occurs, bin Laden has won.

And that's my last post tonight. Type up a response and I'll answer it in the morning.

[Luis Gonzalez]

No, you claimed that the Koran commands people to kill Christians and Jews. You parsed the Koran to do so, and I busted you.

Only Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God.

ARE JEWS THE ANTI-CHRIST???