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Let’s Talk About Paternity Fraud: What’s Going On?
Parents Against Paternity Fraud ^ | Dr. Damon Adams

Posted on 12/09/2002 7:27:06 AM PST by BuddhaBoy

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To: Cincinnatus
It seems to me that a number of folks here are falling into the liberal trap of identifying children as burdens or commodities, chattels to be dealt with according to some form of contract law. They are not.

What I and many others are opposed to is treating children like hostages. Whether that is how the industry you worked in designed it or not, that is what it has become. Since I don't know you personally, I'd have a hard time laying any specific blame at your doorstep for how things are, but I would hope that you couldn't possibly, in any way, think that this system is loaded with bias against fathers from top to bottom.

They are human beings who are innocent of any of the wrong-doing of their parents.

I won't presume to speak for anyone else on FR, but in my view you would be hard pressed to find a father around here who would ever want to blame their children for anything in cases like these. That being said, actions have consequences...it's an immovable law of how the universe works. Some consequences are good, some are neutral, and some are bad. As a former domestic relations court judge, perhaps you can answer this: Why is it that when there is a negative consequence in anything regarding custody of children, the industry almost invarriably will shift as much of that consequence as it can onto the father? Is it because that if the the mother actually has to suffer the consequences for defrauding someone that it would be "unfair" to the child? If so, then you are not doing that child, or society as a whole, any favors. Kids don't stay little forever. At some point, no matter how much anyone tries to shelter them, they will notice what's going on around them. Are you saying that it would be in that childs best interest to see that a woman (his mother, no less!) can lie, commit fraud for financial gain, and know that she will not be required to make restitution or suffer any consequences because she can hide behind a child? Women who do these kind of selfish acts are effectively using their own kids as human shields. What if a mother robbed a bank? No gun, just handed the teller a note that demanded the money in the teller's drawer and gets caught walking out of the bank. Should she not suffer the consequences for theft because if she did, it would punish her kids? Should the father of her children have to pay back the bank because it would punish the kids if he didn't pay for her actions?

Children learn by example. What kind of example are they learning from if they see that their mother can do something as base as paternity fraud and get away with it?

21 posted on 12/09/2002 11:13:54 AM PST by Orangedog
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To: BuddhaBoy
Here's a related thread with plenty of like-minded Freepers whom you may wish to contact:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/768909/posts
22 posted on 12/09/2002 11:24:55 AM PST by End The Hypocrisy
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To: BuddhaBoy
I really think that some women who find themselves pregnant, simply think of some man, perhaps a neighbor, or from church, or from work, that they once spoke to, had lunch with, or [heaven help him] once had over to their place on some pretence [help them move a refrigerator, mow lawn, fix light switch etc]...

JUST SO HE HAS A JOB AND/OR MONEY,

and then say he is the father, give that on the papers when the child is born!

Are there really some men so foolish [or macho as to want to have it claimed they did this] as to go along with this and PAY?

What did Barnum say?

23 posted on 12/09/2002 11:45:34 AM PST by crystalk
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To: End The Hypocrisy
When I launch the site, I'll let everyone know. It should be quite a barn-burner of a forum.
24 posted on 12/09/2002 11:53:01 AM PST by BuddhaBoy
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To: BuddhaBoy
Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I was NOT advocating what the law should or shouldn't be. My reference to my career as a judge was merely to point out that I have been forced to give this matter a great deal of thought. My point was meant to be entirely personal. What I want is for people to re-examine their personal motives and consider, personally, whether they might be able to make a positive difference in a child's life. If one person reading this post decides to make personal sacrifices for a kid who needs it but is not biologically his, then perhaps I will have made a positive difference in someone's life. If not, nothing lost.
25 posted on 12/10/2002 5:14:16 AM PST by Cincinnatus
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To: Cincinnatus
What sort of man is it who turns his back on a child who has come to know him as dad?

In some situations, over a period of years the child has bonded with the dad and the relationship is loving. Resolving a mistaken or fraudulent paternity matter in that circumstance is difficult. The truth usually only comes to light because the parents are splitting up and the mother is either looking to hurt her ex or is bargaining for custody. The man doesn't necessarily turn his back on the child as much as he is running for cover after being bombarded with devaststing testimony by his ex. In time the wounds on both sides (father and child)may heal, after the lawyers are gone.

26 posted on 12/10/2002 5:30:26 AM PST by RGSpincich
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To: RGSpincich
Resolving a mistaken or fraudulent paternity matter in that circumstance is difficult. The truth usually only comes to light because the parents are splitting up and the mother is either looking to hurt her ex or is bargaining for custody. The man doesn't necessarily turn his back on the child as much as he is running for cover after being bombarded with devaststing testimony by his ex.

This is one of those topics that, even though it hasn't happened to me, the subject still raises my blood pressure. IMHO, anyone who would let a woman who commits this kind a fraud off with no consequences is almost as bad as the person who committed the fraud. As was mentioned in another post, the policy of allowing this to happen is legally establishing that two wrongs make a right.

27 posted on 12/10/2002 6:59:40 AM PST by Orangedog
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To: Orangedog
The courts and the mother aside, father and child still have to deal with matters of the heart. Fathers nurture too and once the bond is established there is no walking away without lasting adverse effects. I realize money issues are being discussed primarily here but there are other issues that will affect the father down the road.
28 posted on 12/10/2002 7:13:23 AM PST by RGSpincich
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To: SolidSupplySide
"You seem to indicate that DNA testing can legally exonerate black defendents. Somehow, I see your racist views become visible."

Uh, I think Tacis was merely putting in writing what goes through the head of a liberal when considering these issues.

29 posted on 12/10/2002 7:39:47 AM PST by MEGoody
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To: cryofan3
"but as for myself, I am not a slave to biological destiny. I opt out."

Well, then I hope you either don't sleep around or have gotten things 'fixed' so this won't be an issue for you.

30 posted on 12/10/2002 7:43:06 AM PST by MEGoody
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To: Tired of Taxes
I would agree. If they guy isn't willing to provide financial support for the child, he really doesn't care about him/her. The only reason to continue visitation would be to rub the mom's nose in her 'loss'.

I agree 100% that it is wrong for a woman to force a man to support a child that is not biologically his with certain exceptions. (For example, if the couple has been married for years and the child has thought of the man as 'daddy' essentially all of his/her life and he/she is older than just a toddler.)

It would also be wrong for the guy to 'pretend' to be a dad through visitation while not giving a dime to help the child.

31 posted on 12/10/2002 7:52:32 AM PST by MEGoody
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To: RGSpincich
I'm not trying to gloss over the emotional damage done to children and fathers in these cases. The financial side gets a good deal of attention because that is the only damage that can be reasonably corrected. The emotional scars are permanant. I can't even begin to imagine how devastating this is on someone. The bond established between a father and a child has to be protected. I couldn't possibly consider walking away from my kid, DNA or not. Everyone loses in paternity fraud except for one person...the woman who commits it. The financial part of this is like pouring salt into an open wound.
32 posted on 12/10/2002 7:55:45 AM PST by Orangedog
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To: Orangedog
The court system seems to saying to all of us, “Its OK to lie about who the father of a child really is, as long as someone is paying, there will be no accountability”. What if we applied this same reasoning regarding financial life support to life support for the child still in the womb? I can hear the NOW and NARAL crowd screaming already!
33 posted on 12/10/2002 7:59:25 AM PST by MHGinTN
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To: MEGoody
I would agree. If they guy isn't willing to provide financial support for the child, he really doesn't care about him/her. The only reason to continue visitation would be to rub the mom's nose in her 'loss'.

So what consequence should she face for her actions?

34 posted on 12/10/2002 7:59:36 AM PST by Orangedog
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To: MHGinTN
The court system seems to saying to all of us, “Its OK to lie about who the father of a child really is, as long as someone is paying, there will be no accountability”.

What they are also saying is that if they cannot garnish his paycheck, they have no further use for him. Their policy is "pay up and shut up."

35 posted on 12/10/2002 8:03:59 AM PST by Orangedog
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