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Between Science and Spirituality
The Chronicle of Higher Education ^ | Nov. 29, 2002 | John Horgan

Posted on 12/07/2002 9:46:51 AM PST by beckett

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To: LogicWings
I'm partial to Horgan's socratic colors and this is why I said his bag isn't empty. Socrates was not an absolute skeptic. OTH, you'll notice in my posts to Beckett that your penchant for process is what I fault Horgan on.

Of course betty boop is very adept at describing man in the middle.

121 posted on 12/07/2002 8:07:53 PM PST by cornelis
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To: Dec31,1999; Hank Kerchief
It is only by transcending the gross level of existence that one can know it.

By definition, you cannot know when you have done this.

122 posted on 12/07/2002 8:16:15 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: Dec31,1999; Hank Kerchief
Which is what humans do.

The only 2 instincts known to human is the urge to suck and the fear of falling. Study science.

Humans don't have to be taught "how to do it".

If they are raised by wolves, they do it like wolves. If they are raised by missionaries, they do it missionary style. Facts refute you.

123 posted on 12/07/2002 8:20:40 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: Hank Kerchief; Tares; beavus
In any case where one believes they have discovered a paradox, what they have discovered is a mental breakdown. Contradictions are always indications of error.

Gee, when I said this I was accused of 'remarkably odd' views. Could it be that I'm not the one with such odd notions? Could it be, could it be, I'm not the only one who thinks logic is valid?

124 posted on 12/07/2002 8:28:28 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: LogicWings
logic is valid

Or more tersly, validity is valid. Or truth is true. Or as a Rand clone might say, "Existence exists". That is the problem with all these confused people who try to claim basic principles of thought like identity and noncontradiction do not hold--they always have to appeal to these principles in order to make their point.

125 posted on 12/07/2002 8:35:56 PM PST by beavus
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To: beavus
they always have to appeal to these principles in order to make their point.

thank you beavus. only endorse logic so long as to make one's point, then SHAZZAM!! Welcome to Insanity!

126 posted on 12/07/2002 9:09:03 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: Hank Kerchief
Hank, this type of non thinking has invaded mainstream science. Science used to be called natural philosophy. Not any more.
127 posted on 12/07/2002 9:12:24 PM PST by Gary Boldwater
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To: beavus
Is there a survival instinct in humans?
128 posted on 12/07/2002 9:23:05 PM PST by MHGinTN
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To: beckett
plink
129 posted on 12/07/2002 9:23:11 PM PST by Trailerpark Badass
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To: LogicWings
Thanks for the heads up! This is an interesting thread!
130 posted on 12/07/2002 10:52:23 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: LogicWings
Could it be, could it be, I'm not the only one who thinks logic is valid?

It could be. The fourteen of us, in the whole world, who actually believe in objective truth occasionally bump into each other.

Hank

131 posted on 12/07/2002 11:26:30 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Alamo-Girl
Thanks for the heads up! This is an interesting thread!

i thot so. like so many you fed me. we think, therefore we argue. (but we learn!)

132 posted on 12/07/2002 11:43:33 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: Gary Boldwater
Hank, this type of non thinking has invaded mainstream science. Science used to be called natural philosophy. Not any more.

It is very sad the one bastion of truth we would suspect could never surrender to irrationality has begun to crumble, but you are very correct. How that old, "natural philosopher," Francis Bacon must be tormented in his grave by what has happened to the truth in our age.

"Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed." ---Francis Bacon

Hank

133 posted on 12/07/2002 11:43:42 PM PST by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
The fourteen of us, in the whole world,

That many! I will sleep better tonight!

134 posted on 12/07/2002 11:45:38 PM PST by LogicWings
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To: LogicWings
LOL! Where else on the web could we find so many interested in such a wide variety of subject matter in so great a detail?
135 posted on 12/07/2002 11:54:10 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl
Where else on the web could we find so many interested in such a wide variety of subject matter in so great a detail?

Freepers are the best, agreed. We think, we argue, we are. (some of us are even civil)

As I watch the F16s fly overhead I think we need to close ranks a little and Be Americans. God, I hope it doesn't come to war. We don't need this. But we can't dodge either. Keep arguing people. Keep discussing. We are free. We are the future, or nothing matters.

136 posted on 12/08/2002 12:10:40 AM PST by LogicWings
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To: beckett; PatrickHenry; Alamo-Girl; betty boop; Tares; longshadow; beavus
ok, in general. long after the first post, and since I am asking in general, I posted to the first poster.

What is 'spirit?' Can we define this term? Before we can talk about 'spirituality' don't we have to define 'spirit?'
This is a major issue that cannot be lightly brushed aside. What does this term mean? What is the concept denoted??
137 posted on 12/08/2002 12:23:56 AM PST by LogicWings
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To: LogicWings
Freepers are the best! We can always agree on that one!

On the war issue, the only way I can see averting it would require an uprising against our targets. This is not impossible, it's going on in Iran. For it to happen in Iraq, the people must be comfortable that the U.S. et al will back them in the event things go awry. Clinton didn't and it cost many lives and all the momentum:

Wall Street Journal 1/20/2000 Andrew Bacevich “… U.S. efforts to subvert the Iraqi dictator's hold on power from within have gone precisely nowhere. In 1996, Saddam uncovered and proceeded to smash CIA operations based in northern Iraq aimed at organizing a domestic opposition. Since that debacle--and despite congressional prodding in the form of the Iraq Liberation Act--administration efforts to galvanize the Iraqi opposition have been largely confined to hosting taxpayer-supported conferences in pricey midtown Manhattan hotels…..”

New York Post 2/3/99 Niles Lathem ".U.S. officials say the CIA has received "credible and reliable" intelligence reports that Saddam is forging alliances with some of the Middle East's most bloodthirsty terrorists - including Osama Bin Laden and Abu Nidal - as part of an apparently new campaign to strike American targets and possibly destabilize Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. News of Saddam's terrorist strategy comes as American efforts to contain him with sanctions and arms inspections appear to be unraveling in the United Nations.. U.S. intelligence agencies are concerned about the possibility that Saddam could not only help with funding and logistics for Bin Laden's far-flung network, known as al-Qada, but he could also help the group acquire chemical and biological weapons through the Sudanese connection. The CIA believes Iraq moved large amounts of precursor chemicals for weapons into the Sudan through Libya before the Gulf War.."

We are in this mess because of Clinton's administration and there is no easy way out. Clinton should have stopped it after the first WTC bombing, the Ryadh bombing, the embassy bombings, the USS Cole bombing. Jeepers, he could have nabbed Osama in Sudan years ago.

Truly, I hope uprisings will keep this from being costly not just in Iraq but Iran, N. Korea, Syria, Palestine and anywhere terrorism has found a sponsor.

138 posted on 12/08/2002 12:29:15 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: taxed2death
If you like that book you should try this one..
The Holographic Universe .. Michael Talbot

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=30004164&loc=106

139 posted on 12/08/2002 1:12:58 AM PST by Bobalu
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To: LogicWings
Gee, when I said this I was accused of 'remarkably odd' views. Could it be that I'm not the one with such odd notions? Could it be, could it be, I'm not the only one who thinks logic is valid?

Put down your magnifying glass and step away from the mirror, Narcissus.




140 posted on 12/08/2002 1:53:40 AM PST by Sabertooth
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