Can We Be Good Without God?

The Atlantic Online ^ | December 1989 | Glenn Tinder

[A. Pole]

One passage ponder:

[...] In America conservatives believe that sin is effectively redirected to the common good through the market. The alchemy of capitalist competition transmutes sin into virtue. But it is difficult to see how any Christian who fully grasps Christian principles can be an unqualified supporter of capitalism. [...]

[widowithfoursons]

I assume that this is not your view.

[secretagent]

But it is difficult to see how any Christian who fully grasps Christian principles can be an unqualified supporter of capitalism. [...]

Anyone who believes in the golden rule would qualify their support for capitalism. since different people define it differently.

[jlogajan]

Can We Be Good Without God?

Well, it wasn't atheists who flew those planes into the WTC towers.

[A. Pole]

Can We Be Good Without God?

Well, it wasn't atheists who flew those planes into the WTC towers.

Well, the question is not whether ANY belief (false or true) in ANY God/god (false or true again) makes people automatically good. The question is "Can we be good without God"? Can we?

[Tomalak]

I thought the question was "Can you be good without God", not "Can you be evil with Allah?".

I can't pretend to have read all of that post, but I'd be interested in a coherent, informed explanation of why the free economy is inimical to Christianity.

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[Skooz]

The idiots who flew those planes into the WTC towers don't know God from my dog's rear end. Jesus is God. They deny that. Therefore, they don't know Him.

[DeweyCA]

Capitalism is a great mechanism for increasing production and providing for people's needs because it successfully channels the individual's natural self-interested nature into productive ends. But without morality, induced by Christianity, it can quickly degenerate, because of those same self-interests, into a stringent survival of the fittest where ruthlessness and corruption become the norm; eg. Enron, Global crossing, Whitewater.

[A. Pole]

One passage to ponder:

[...]
In America conservatives believe that sin is effectively redirected to the common good through the market. The alchemy of capitalist competition transmutes sin into virtue. But it is difficult to see how any Christian who fully grasps Christian principles can be an unqualified supporter of capitalism.
[...]

[jlogajan]

The idiots who flew those planes into the WTC towers don't know God from my dog's rear end. Jesus is God. They deny that. Therefore, they don't know Him.

So it was impossible to be good 2000 years ago, hmm?

[Willie Green]

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.
Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

[WKB]

Psa 14:3 They have all gone astray, they are all alike perverse; there is no one who does good, no, not one.

[elfman2]

" Capitalism is a great mechanism for increasing production and providing for people's needs because it successfully channels the individual's natural self-interested nature into productive ends. But without morality…"

That is morality, principles and values to guide our behavior through life. It's an incomplete morality, but not different from morality.

Without something else, you're right, it's unstable and degenerates. I think Christianity's probably the most proven solution, but not necessarily the best for everyone today nor the best that will ever exist. After all, it's not without examples where it has degenerated as well.

Objectivists would say that an understanding of a single non-subjective reality with predictable consequences of bad behavior, "that which doesn't promote life", that guides our principles replaces the role of God for them as a foundation for morality. Personally, I think they have great potential, but aren't nearly as far along as most think they are to developing a stable, complete and self-sustaining moral system similar to that of Christian communities.

[AmericaUnited]

The answer: NO

Atheists and Humanists insist man is inherently good. Anyone with a brain and eyes knows this is absurd. We are born with a sin nature. Look at little children. Notice how un-self-centered and sharing, they are. Notice how they never tell lies, never take from others(steal), etc., etc. No, you didn't notice this?! Me neither until and unless their "good" parents teach them to act in ways other than their natural born sin-full nature.

[JZoback]

Bump to read later

[Mr. Mojo]

The answer is a resounding YES. I personally know many atheists and agnostics who display the absolute highest degree of moral and ethical integrity.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"The alchemy of capitalist competition transmutes sin into virtue."

When did Karl Marx find religion?

[Churchill Gomez]

Shouldn't you have posted this thread in the Religion forum?

[onedoug]

Ethical Monotheism