Posted on 11/29/2002 1:20:38 PM PST by Jean S
For some reason, I had to read this 3 times. I kept seeing "low floor" and was wondering what Al Gore had to do with that.
"I invented the 'low floor'."
Yeah, mine was designed fairly well for the upstairs of the home. My particular problem was that the basement wasn't considered part of the house despite its being insulated from the garage. They didn't put any registers down there. Seems to be a trend down here in the south. Up north, the basement was always conditioned space even unfinished.
Get yourself a hygrometer ($30), and monitor the relative humidity in your home. Keep it between 40 and 60% if you can.
I second that advice. I have a digital. I will be getting another to put in the basement (which I do dehumidify).
Until recently, I was working as an electrician on million dollar homes up in the Highlands/Cashiers area. The contractors installed the crappiest, cheapest systems in those homes that I had ever seen. The rich saps paying for those fancy lake homes will be uncomfortable forever in them.
I saw one unit that was installed in an almost-inaccessible attic space above a bedroom. There was just no way that anybody was ever going to get up there and clean the coils or change the filter.
I've seen that kind of thing - put the air handler in a tight corner of a hot attic, or in the smallest closet they can get away with. I like mine right out in the open in the middle of the basement for easy access. As I finish the basement, I've made sure to leave a large space around the unit, and am installing a 72" opening with folding doors in front to allow easy access.
If the material dries completely within 2-3 days, mold growth will not occur. Whether is dries quickly enough is a function of relative humidity, air movement across the material and temperature. It is always possible to get it dried OK. But it may require specialty equipment and knowledge. Depending on the ambient conditions is operating on a high degree of hope, which can get very expensive.
Unfinished drywall is quite permeable, so it dries quicly. The big problems arise after paint films, vinyl wallpaper and other finishes which restrict drying have been applied.
I think part of that problem stems from government regulation. Why? Because people have come to rely on the government to do their thinking for them, to their own detriment, of course. The general consensus, I suspect, is that housing codes ensure a quality home. That, of course, is not true. While codes have created a minimum level of quality in many areas, they cannot substitute for the knowledgable buyer. Plus, builders don't always adhere strictly to the code.
Let's see how many century homes are around 8 or 9 decades from now.
The problem for those of us who don't know this stuff is how to pick the right inspector / builder. There are dozens of examples in this thread of conflicting advice from people who claim to know what they're talking about. Tyvec is the problem. Tyvec is good. Insulation causes the mold problem. Insulation prevents it. Insulation has no effect either way. Metal studs are the problem because they don't retain water. They are the solution because they don't retain water. Stucco causes it. Stucco doesn't.
When I bought my two houses, I hired an independent inspector because I'm pretty ignorant about construction. Things I thought would be problems weren't anything to be concerned about. Stuff I wouldn't have thought twice about were big issues to my inspector. Best money I ever spent.
But what I'm hearing from this thread is you need to get an inspector/builder who knows the answers to these issues, but no one seems to agree on what the correct answer is.
As you may have noticed, I'm trying to temper it myself.
Except that I think the mold problems, present or future, are more widespread than the media has cottoned onto. A recent study I read showed that about 20% of brand-new structures have significant mold problems before being occupied. Another claims that 50-80% of recently-built structures will eventually develop serious mold problems unless major modifications are done.
My "tempering" is aimed at keeping the medical effects in perspective and realizing that almost all structures can be remediated, even if at a significant cost.
BTW, I appreciate your attempts to be even-handed, rather than shouting that it's all a plot of the evil lawyers.
Not that some of the hype isn't exactly that!
Very true. People like the idea, but are unwilling to pay anything extra to get it.
But how many of these people do you think will be willing to assume any of the responsibility when their home develops a problem?
I really don't understand it. We're perfectly willing to pay more to get higher quality in cars, clothing, restaurant meals, coffee, etc. But for some reason homes are considered to be generic, except for visible features.
Thank you for stating my point. Insulation is not the cause of problems, water and moisture getting in and not getting out is the problem. Proper ventilation is a must.
Except that I think the mold problems, present or future, are more widespread than the media has cottoned onto. A recent study I read showed that about 20% of brand-new structures have significant mold problems before being occupied. Another claims that 50-80% of recently-built structures will eventually develop serious mold problems unless major modifications are done.
That's probably our only point of contention - the degree to which mold really is a problem. This isn't really something that just happened in the last few years - there's been mold for as long as there's been life on this planet. Lysol, 20 years ago, used to advertise how their product removed "mold and mildew" from the bathroom. But it seems that now, its all 'deadly' mold and absolutely must be removed. That's the part I'm having trouble with.
So my question would be, "is it really worth worrying over in most cases?" My instincts say no, in most cases. But, they also say yes in some, rare cases. I suspect that you lean more towards taking no risks while I lean towards not overdoing it. Different points on the continuum.
Exactly, people need to educate themselves with the basics of the "bones and organs" of a house, not just the skin. The most fabulous looking home will be an utter nightmare to live in if the envelope and systems of the house are not properly designed and constructed. And of course, all buildings must be maintained. Structures are dynamic creatures which change over time.
Just wanted to point out that nobody, not even sit-rep, can take a quick look at mold growth and conclusively tell what species it is without examination under a microscope. And I regularly work with some of the best mycologists in the worldl.
Also, Stachy is by no means the only problem mold. It may not even be the one that represents the greatest threat. There are literally tens of thousands of mold species. Several dozen species are "water damage indicator organisms," which means they tend to grow in wet buildings.
Quite of few of these are highly toxigenic.
According to every published industry standard or guideline, all mold growth should be removed, using approximately the same procedures, regardless of species.,
BINGO!
Housing codes mostly address other issues. And, depending on the climate and the code, they often make the situation worse.
I have a walk-in attic, and when I install my unit, it will be hung from the roof rafters for noise isolation. I sized my own ductwork using a demo duct-design program I downloaded off the internet.
Right now, I am heating the entire 1300s.f. main floor with my Rumford fireplace. I am especially pleased with it's performance, since it is the first masonry fireplace I have ever built.
There are about two months in the summer here in WNC where the RH hovers at 95%. Two summers ago, all my furniture and my log walls started to get mold on them. So last summer I installed a 6000BTU window AC unit, which kept the RH at 60% the entire time.
By next summer I plan to have the central unit installed. I will buy the unit from these guys: airconditioningexchange.com, who sell quality units for less than half what your local contractor will charge you.
I also plan to install an Air-Bear filter, since we live on a dirt road and have a dust problem. The fireplace produces a fine ash that settles on everything, too.
But you know, you can't tell anybody anything. My neighbor built a two-story Deltech home (one of those round ones), with a huge amount of South facing glass. I told him (pleaded, actually) to install a zoned system; Otherwise his upper floor would be too hot and the lower floor would be too cold.
Well, he didn't listen and it's just as I predicted. The guest bedrooms upstairs run at 85 degrees when the downstairs is 65 degrees. His guests have to open the windows in the winter, and just suffer in the summer. His master bedroom is frigid at all times. Oh well...
I would start by learning about homes. Learn the basics - get a book such as "Encyclopedia of Home Improvement" or "Carpentry and Building Construction". They will get you started on the basics.
You'll find that there are various theories on such issues as whether to use a vapor barrier or not and whether to seal the attic or leave it ventilated (yes, there are advocates for a sealed attic scheme). Understanding the basics helps you understand how these theoretical schemes are supposed to work.
Also, a couple of the links that were presented here by Restorer and others provide a host of good information. Read them as time allows and you'll be better equipped to deal with inspectors. You may even point out a few things to them to let them know that you're not just another pretty face. :^)
Bingo! Building codes which were designed to describe the minimum standards, have now become the maximum standards. Mandatory codes always have this effect.
And the homebuying public, relieved by the government of the tedium of actualy having to learn to tell quality construction from shoddy, thinks that they are safe.
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