Toxic Intruder: Black Mold Panic Has Families Fleeing Their Homes

ABCNEWS.com ^ | 11/29/02

[meyer]

Very true. The big problem is that right now the science has not yet been done that will allow us to determine with precision which claims are valid and which are not.

The trick, as I see it, is to not repeat the asbestos situation where over-reaction ruled. Asbestos is dangerous in certain situations, but its danger was exagerated in the courtroom and the media to the point that any minute quantity of asbestos was treated as though it were nuclear waste, despite its low toxicity in most cases. The cost to American industry was huge. We are a much weaker country in terms of true productivity due to rulings like those involving asbestos. Are there any lawyers in China?

[Restorer]

My question to you is...are sheetrock walls more prone to this kind of damage than plaster walls? If so, is the paper content in the sheetrock the reason?

BINGO!

Plaster is chemically close to concrete. Molds cannot eat it, since it is inorganic.

Drywall is paper made of cellulose (the fibrous portion of the wood) with the other mold repellent parts of the wood (lignins, tannins) removed. Paper is like baby food for mold. Then they laminate this paper onto both sides of a sponge (gypsum) and seal at least one side of it up inside a wall cavity so it can dry only very slowly.

BTW, some scientists have used drywall from Home Depot as a growth medium in laboratories for Stachybotrys. It grew better on it than on anything else they could find.

[Frapster]

Heck - just do what I do. Get a squirrel to punch a hole in your wall and then after getting him 'trapped' and 'removed' have him come back. Not just once but THREE times! My house is definitely no-longer air tight. Of course the warped wood siding on the sun-ward side (in Houston) helps too. Dang I really don't want to fork out the dough to replace that - but it might have been a blessing in disguise. The neighbor behind us had to evacuate his home due to mold.

[Restorer]

How dry is "dry"?The technical way of measuring materials for their ability to support growth is "water activity." If that is below .60, no fungi will ever grow on that material. Very few will grow below .70.

Unfortunately, measuring it is somewhat technical and requires equipment few people have.

If you place a paper towel on the carpet and stand on it for 30-60 seconds, it should not feel damp. That's dry carpet.

In some climates, getting carpets dry quickly enough is fairly easy. In others, it's very hard.

Without a truck-mount, airmovers, possibly dehumidifiers and expertise, it can be dang near impossible.

[seams2me]

You're right on track with that carpet/asthma thing.

We are working toward all hardwood floors, and each room we pull the carpet out of reduces the dust in the house dramatically.

It always disgusts and amazes me the amount of stuff that's under those carpets....

[Restorer]

I would hope that those doing the research aren't left-wingers and otherwise don't have a dog in this race.

Scientists aren't supposed to have dogs in races.

Unfortunately, a surprising number of scientists are left-wing. One of my best friends is a leading environemtal consultant specializing in this issue. He's actually shifted his viewpoint over the years and is now really mildly conservative. But he still thinks of himself as a leftist.

[Ditter]

If you have warped & cracked wood siding on your home, replace it NOW! That was one of the several water leaks that caused the mold problem in our Galveston Bay house.

[VermiciousKnid]

Thank you for your reply.

Do you have any advice for someone who has experienced a water heater leak that soaked the basement?

The standing water was removed immediately by the homeowners (three shopvacs going at the same time), the insurance company sent a water damage team to the house, and the basement carpet and pad were all removed and discarded within hours, along with anything that was truly damaged beyond repair. Then they set the big blowers going for 72 hours (being moved around every few hours), the whole basement was sprayed with an antifungal agent, and mold and mildew paint was applied to the affected (sheetrocked) walls. In addition, the owners kept the basement well-lit and ventilated for a few weeks, the theory being that mold doesn't like light. This was a few months ago, and the homeowners have checked and rechecked for mold and have found none. There have been no further problems, but how long would it take for such mold to show up?

Thanks again,
Regards,

[Frapster]

Unfortunately I do not have the funds or the where-whithall to replace it now. I've used screws to secure what I can. However, my post was partly in jest. I am not the least bit worried about black mold. My house is not 'air tight' by any stretch of the imagination and many of the homes that I've seen suddenly develop black mold are older than 25 years. This is a hysteria and it's costing me a pretty penny in higher home insurance premium.

[meyer]

Without a truck-mount, airmovers, possibly dehumidifiers and expertise, it can be dang near impossible.

I've seen a couple of carpet cleaning folks in my time, with and without the truck. I think "expertise" may not be the appropriate term here. I'll grant that truck-mount vacuums are generally more powerful than plug-in models, and air movement to help pull the moisture out of the carpet presents a useful tool, but the guys I've seen cleaning carpet range from pretty intelligent to those that are lucky to be able to plug the vacuum hose in properly. Yet, they still manage to clean a carpet and have it dry in a timely manner. They always recommend 1 day before removing the little furniture coasters regardless of their skill. I imagine that represents covering for the ones that soak a carpet and fail to pull the water back out.

[Restorer]

If something isn't right, it simply ought to be made illegal by the elected legislature, not by the unelected court system.

I don't disagree. Frankly, I think executives of large corporations should be held criminally responsible for the misdeeds of their employees in the interests of the corporation.

We all know that almost never happens now, so the primary effect of getting rid of punitive damages would be to remove all disincentive for corporations to misbehave. The end result of that would probably be more regulation, micro-management by government oversight.

Punitive damages, with all their drawbacks, are certainly preferable to that, IMHO.

I've had a case where the amount needed to repair fire damage properly was $20k. The adjuster was going to offer them $10k. He looked me in the eye and said, "They're old, black and poor. What are they going to do about it?" The answer was they accepted the 10 grand.

This behavior did not put money in the pocket of the adjuster. It put $10k on the bottom line for the insurance company. It was immoral, unethical and possibly illegal. But you can't put a corporation in jail.

If a corporation has strong financial incentives to behave badly, it needs at least some financial counter-incentive to avoid such behavior. Punitive damages, for all their faults, provide that counter-incentive. (Well, sometimes they do.) :)

[finnman69]

I'm an architect, and as a licensed architect and a member of the American Institue of Architects I must attend classes, lectures and seminars to maintain my continuing education credits. I would say that in the last 2 years, 80% of my credits have in some way addressed mold and the prevention of mold. In one recent lecture a contractor brought up that mold IS a serious and dangerous problem. One of his carpenters was installing new baseboard and in the process, touched a contaminated area. Apparently the man touched his face after because he eventually lost half of it to a face eating mold that devoured his skin.

Mold is no joke.

The primary cause of mold is moisture getting inside your house and inadequate ventilation to deal with the moisture getting out. The top priority should be to keep moisture out of the house. Grade outside of homes should be sloped away from foundation walls, gravel should be properly placed, drains located, eaves and overhangs incorporated into homes, and proper vapor barriers specified. If cracks in basement foundation walls are not properly sealed, moisture will infiltrate your house.

Much moisture in homes also is formed directly from human activity such as showering and cooking. Cooking and showering deposits several pints of water a day into the atmosphere of your home.

Due to natural thermodynamics, in the summer warm humid air outside a home tends to condense in wall cavities when it hits the cooler dryer interior portions of walls. In the winter the reverse is true. This is why good insulation in walls and ceilings is imperative. More importantly, vapor barriers or mold resistant drywall should be utilized on surfaces suceptible to mold growth.

Without water, mold cannot grow. And remember, mold needs a food source. Wood and the paper found on most drywall is the perfect food medium when combined with water.

Most importantly, keep the water out. The number one problem in homes is water or moisture related.

[Restorer]

The trick, as I see it, is to not repeat the asbestos situation where over-reaction ruled.

Absolutely correct. About $60 billion has been spent on abating asbestos. The net effect was a slight increase in average exposure to the mineral.

There are numerous types of asbestos. They are made up of different minerals, with similar fire-resistance characteristics, but very different properties otherwise.

Most types of asbestos do not cause health problems. But the government had only one category and insisted that all asbestos be treated the same, regardless of its true health risk.

Probably wasted $50 billion, not counting side-effects on business.

IMHO, the mold issue is going to cost a lot more than asbestos, even if we figure out the most cost-effective way to deal with it. And that ain't very likely!

[finnman69]

Also, mold is where thr major consturction lawsuits are being dircted these days. Even lead paint is faint in comparison. Asbestos is a joke compared to this.

[Restorer]

Have the owners contact the water damage contractors for their moisture content log. If they don't have one, the chances of their having done a proper job are slim.

According to a number of studies, 40 to 80% of mold problems in buildings are completely hidden from view.

A visual/physical inspection by a qualified environmental consultant should turn up any indicators that further investigation might be needed. Should cost less than $500, if they can find somebody qualified to do it.

[finnman69]

This will be traced back to some government regulation mandating insulation requirements.

You dont have a clue what you are talking about,

Lack of proper insulation is one of the chief reasons mold grows. Without insulation, condensation happens in exterior walls and roofs/ceilings. Moisture=mold.p> The ideal temperatrure for mold to grpw is 33F to 120F and 65 to 95% humidity.

With better insulation,proper vapor barriers, and adequate ventilation none of these homes would have mold problems.

[finnman69]

Funny how buildings with windows that open do not seem to have a mold problem

Correct, proper ventilation is neded to remove buildup of moisture from inside structures. If a room is airtight with vapor barriers, even the moisture from indoor plants, showers and cooking will raise humidity in a home to level that can produce mold.

[Restorer]

What you said.

Except that vapor barriers and insulation need to be properly specified and installed for the particular climate and building, or they can definitely make the situation worse.

[finnman69]

Its not the insulation, insulation prevents moisture buildup, which grows mold. Its improper waterproofing , lack of vapor barriers, lack of insulation and lack of ventilation which produce mold.

[finnman69]

you likely have IMPROPER vapor barriers or waterproofing.