Toxic Intruder: Black Mold Panic Has Families Fleeing Their Homes

ABCNEWS.com ^ | 11/29/02

[Ditter]

I'm sorry to hear about all the problems you have had since your exposure to mold. (Read my post #105) Lucky for me our house was weekend only or I suspect I would have had more serious problems. Each exposure only took me 36 hours to recover. It took a number of times before I figured out the house was making me sick. It took finding the mold to understand why. I

[sneakypete]

I've also read that the more tightly constructed, well-insulated modern houses have also contributed to the increasing prevalence of asthma. Any thoughts?

I'm not "restorer",but I'd be willing to bet money on it. It's not just the fact that the houses are so much more airtight today. It's also the more modern materials being used in them that is causing problems. If you don't believe me,all you have to do is go into a new home or office that has all new cabinets,nylon carpets,moulding,etc in it that has been shut up all weekend in warm weather,and the chemical smell is enough to knock you down.

ANYBODY out there who has small children needs to get rid of your nylon carpet NOW. In MY opinion,this is the one thing most responsible for the high number of children today who have respirority diseases such as asthma. Remember the smell I wrote about above? Your children are MUCH closer to this than you are,and are more sensitive to it. There is also the fact that all carpet collects all the moisture and "trash" from the bottom of your shoes when you come in the house,and the carpet will stay moist all day from wet shoes. Get throw rugs you can wash in your washing machine,and get rid of the carpets.

[VermiciousKnid]

Restorer,

Your screen name made me write this to you.

My mother's house is very old (mid-19th century), and of course has plaster walls. She lives right across the street from Long Island Sound, so there's plenty of water all around, but I have NEVER seen mold anywhere in her home.

I, on the other hand have a more modern house (can't afford any of the real nice oldies) built in the mid-1950s, and the walls are made of sheetrock. We also don't live waterfront (can't afford that, either! LOL). While we don't have a mold problem ourselves, other houses in the neighborhood have been afflicted with it.

My question to you is...are sheetrock walls more prone to this kind of damage than plaster walls? If so, is the paper content in the sheetrock the reason?

Regards,

[sneakypete]

I can tell you that in N. Litchfield Beach, south of Myrtle Beach a few miles, a complete complex that was built 3 years ago sits in litigation over mold.

And I can tell you that there is a respirority disease that comes from exposure to mold that is prevelent ONLY on the east coast,from around northern Virginia to Florida. My SF medic friends who happen to have more than a passing interest in exotic diseases told me this is most likely what I had,and that I was lucky to survive it because up to 40% of the people who get it die the first 3 days unless they get hospital care. I can't remember the name of this disease now,but it's for real.

[Restorer]

Re: #72

I guarantee you that for each quote you (or Mr. Tepper) come up with to show that mold isn't a problem, I can come up with several to show that it is. That's what happens when a new problem shows up. There is a lag between the discovery of strong and growing evidence and absolute proof.

As I mentioned above, there are large and powerful groups that have huge financial interests threatened by the whole mold issue. Eash group wants the whole issue to just go away, or at least to be pinned onto another group.

According to the Texas Institute for the Indoor Environment of The University of Texas at Austin:

"As discussed in the beginning of this statement, many factors have contributed over the years to the problem of mold in buildings. Beginning with those who fund the cost of buildings, to the architects who design them, to the construction companies who build them, to organizations who develop energy and ventilation “standards” for buildings, to the companies who provide building materials, to the occupants who use the buildings, to the consulting companies who have incorrectly specified remediation plans, to remediation companies who have significantly overcharged for their work, and to the insurance companies who insure these buildings, all have contributed to the crisis at hand. The solution is not a simple one. Each stakeholder must do their part and all must move in the correct direction if a proper solution is to be realized."

That's what should happen. Don't hold your breath.

[sneakypete]

Look at the posts and see the mass hysteria (and lawyers?) spouting the idiotic delusions born of media Junk Science.

Oh yeah,I'm totally hysterical,and my medic friends were taught medical "junk science". Good call.

[sneakypete]

The plus side is that I'm accumulating a fine collection of tools in the process. :^)

See? It all works out in the end.

[Restorer]

Do you think Ms. Ballard was entitled to $32 million?

Not particularly, but that is (unfortunately) the way our society works. What do you propose to punitive damages as an alternative way of disciplining multi-billion dollar companies that just ignore their contractual obligations? To companies that say, "Sue us" when they are asked to do what they had agreed to do? How many people just walk away when a legitimate claim is denied because they don't have the resources or energy to fight a big corporation? How many corporations do you think depend on this reaction?

The key word is "legitimate." I think most of the mold "panic" is NOT legitimate.

I agree the key word is "legitimate." What we need are more effective ways of drawing the line between legitimate and illegitimate, which requires first a definition of where that line is. Research is underway to find out, but for a number of technical reasons, defining "how much is too much" is very difficult.

[Restorer]

Re: #75

There are no bad building materials, just badly used materials.

I strongly recommend www.buildingscience.com for more information. Joe Lstiburek has published a number of Builders' Guides for different climates that does an excellent job of addressing these issues.

"Wouldn't vinyl trap moisture and cause mold in flooring lumber?"

Not necessarily. If the lumber can dry effectively in the other direction, it won't cause a problem at all. To address these issues properly requires a basic understanding of moisture dynamics, which is why Irecommend the books above and also Joe's Moisture Control Handbook, which is available from the website and Amazon.

[Restorer]

Seriously, cleaning a carpet does get the carpet wet. Very wet.

As an ex-20 year carpet cleaner, I know that properly cleaned carpet will be dry withing 4-8 hours.

Unfortunately, to get really dirty carpet really clean and then really dry in this time period requires something like $40k in cleaning equipment and in certain weather conditions may require additional drying equipment. Not to mention that you have to know how to use the equipment properly.

Not exactly a do it yourself situation.

[Restorer]

I sell all my basement totals with metal instead of wood. Galvanised and won't hold water. Big seller. Makes a straight wall too.

Metal studs will not serve as a food source for mold. Unfortunately, they also have no ability to store moisture.

A recent seminar I attended showed that (in very round figures) a 1900 era home could store about 500 gallons of water within its building envelope before reaching a point at which mold growth would begin.

A 1960 era home with wood studs can store about 50 gallons.

A modern, tight, steel-frame home can store about 5 gallons before reaching the same point.

Given the inevitability of leaks at some point, which home do you think is more likely to develop a mold problem?

Seriously, folks, if you're buying or building a home you need to learn about moisture dynamics and building science.

[Restorer]

You can get an ozone lamp you put in your A/C ducts. Will kill all mold in the ducts at least and help clean the air in the house.

Before anybody takes this advice, I strongly recommend they do some research. Ozone is a toxic gas and has little effect on mold spores.

Check out what the EPA has to say before investing.

[meyer]

As an ex-20 year carpet cleaner, I know that properly cleaned carpet will be dry withing 4-8 hours.

How dry is "dry"? I was refering to the carpet/pad being at a state where it was more moist than the surrounding air, not squishy wet. You're right, that goes away quickly if your vac is powerful enough to pull it out. You probably used a truck, right?

[Restorer]

Re: 109

Until very recently, very few building inspectors specifically looked for mold problems.

There is also a huge problem with "home inspectors" who work off referrals from realtors. Since realtors have a big incentive to sell homes, "home inspectors" who routinely find problems are a lot less likely to get future referrals from realtors.

There are wonderful, ethical home inspectors. But the potential conflict of interest if definitely there. And few buyers realize it.

[meyer]

I agree the key word is "legitimate." What we need are more effective ways of drawing the line between legitimate and illegitimate, which requires first a definition of where that line is. Research is underway to find out, but for a number of technical reasons, defining "how much is too much" is very difficult.

Of that, I'm grateful. Its important to find out what is to be considered "legit" and what is BS. I would hope that those doing the research aren't left-wingers and otherwise don't have a dog in this race.

[Restorer]

Very interesting story.

I hope you'll keep getting better.

I'm lucky. 20+ years doing similar work, and I never had such an experience.

That's one of the big problems with these exposures. They effect people differently, which makes standard scientific experiments difficult.

[meyer]

Not particularly, but that is (unfortunately) the way our society works. What do you propose to punitive damages as an alternative way of disciplining multi-billion dollar companies that just ignore their contractual obligations? To companies that say, "Sue us" when they are asked to do what they had agreed to do? How many people just walk away when a legitimate claim is denied because they don't have the resources or energy to fight a big corporation? How many corporations do you think depend on this reaction?

You probably don't want my opinion on this, but here it is anyway. There shouldn't be any punative damages unless laws were broken and can be proven broken beyond a reasonable doubt in the court of criminal law. Civil court damages really ought to be based on restitution only. If something isn't right, it simply ought to be made illegal by the elected legislature, not by the unelected court system.

[Restorer]

What do you recommend?

Very big question.

1. A "modern" wet building should be treated with about the same urgency as a building on fire, even if it's just a small wet area. Get the best local water damage company to dry it properly and completely. Try www.iicrc.com for referrals. Tell them to dry it as fast as possible. Don't wait for insurer approval, by then it may be too late to prevent mold growth. You have a 24 - 72 hour window of opportunity.

2. Once mold growth has occurred, I would recommend an investigation by a qualified environmental consultant. Unfortunately, there are very few of these when compared to those who claim to be. He needs a background in both science and construction, which is why they're so scarce.. :) A thorough investigation likely to cost you a minimum of $1500, which is why prevention is so important.

3. Once a proper investigation has been completed, you will hopefully have the information you need to proceed further.

BTW, a denial of a claim by an insurer is not the final word. Often, it's a first bargaining position. Unethical, but effective. Most people just disappear when the adjuster tells them it's not covered.

[Restorer]

Kind of like welfare - free rides attract riders.

Very true. The big problem is that right now the science has not yet been done that will allow us to determine with precision which claims are valid and which are not.