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LITTLE WHITE LIES (Administration tells about Islam)
Chronicles Magazine ^ | November 22, 2002 | Thomas Fleming

Posted on 11/24/2002 7:38:43 PM PST by Keyes For President

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To: Keyes For President
What's dishonest about this campaign to declare Islam the enemy: you claim it's time for honest talk, that the President's choice of words is dishonest. You, OTOH generalize the extremist element of Islam onto its mass practictioners worldwide (most of them nonviolent).

I also find your version is current with religious zealots in a primitive, tribal religion sense.
21 posted on 11/24/2002 8:29:10 PM PST by Belial
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To: CWOJackson
BTW, post #19 was meant for you.
22 posted on 11/24/2002 8:30:17 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: crystalk
Post #19 was meant for CWOJackson
23 posted on 11/24/2002 8:30:51 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
I thought as much.
24 posted on 11/24/2002 8:31:45 PM PST by CWOJackson
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Not people, but bodies possessed by Satan, and in any event they have already picked the fight with us, and it will be and is, war to the death.

Join us or defect to the towelheads.

25 posted on 11/24/2002 8:32:09 PM PST by crystalk
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To: CWOJackson
What you wrote merits reflection. It should also be noted that you refer to historic times and Islamism resides in the past for its relevance, not in the present or the future. If Islamism succeeds in taking over the world, civilization will revert to historic parameters, with the incumbent enslavements residing therein.
26 posted on 11/24/2002 8:33:49 PM PST by MHGinTN
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To: crystalk
I'm not joining anything you belong to, and I'm not drinking from any cup that's touched your lips.

You are no less the problem than "they" are.

"They" did not pick the fight with us, a bunch of terrorists picked a fight with us.

"Join us or defect to the towelheads."

You are as demented as they are, and every bit as possesed by Satan.

27 posted on 11/24/2002 8:40:10 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: MHGinTN
I wish some of you folks would make up your minds. Every other post on FR is about how the founding fathers meant this, Thomas Jefferson said that. And how many times a day do I see people posting that if we don't remember history we're bound to repeat itself, etc.

Now suddenly the past isn't relevent.

What isn't relevent is branding an entire religion based on the actions of a fanatical minority.

28 posted on 11/24/2002 8:41:33 PM PST by CWOJackson
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To: Keyes For President
bump
29 posted on 11/24/2002 8:43:11 PM PST by foreverfree
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Easy my friend! Many are unable to differentiate between Islam and fanatical, suicidal, totalitarian Islamism.
30 posted on 11/24/2002 8:43:16 PM PST by MHGinTN
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To: MHGinTN; CWOJackson
There was a time when Islam was the most advanced religion in the world. Scholars, and universities filled with students were the norm in Islamic countries while Europe was caught in the grip of the Dark Ages.

Now, the fanatical sects dominating Islam have an inherent need to maintain their worshippers ignorant, and uneducated.

They need troops.

31 posted on 11/24/2002 8:44:16 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: MHGinTN; CWOJackson
I have read that the most highly educated Muslim population in the Middle East are the Palestinians. They attend Israeli schools and universities.

I have this insane notion that the problems in Palestine, and the continuing acts of war against Israel are designed by radical Muslims who do not wish to see the Palestinians at peace with Israel, and educated enough to understand that the rest of the Muslim world has been using them for decades.

Imagine Arafat out, a permanent peace with Israel, and education...could very well bring about the fall of the Wahhabi radicals world wide.

32 posted on 11/24/2002 8:52:30 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: MHGinTN
Good to see you too Marvin! It's been a long time.
33 posted on 11/24/2002 8:53:40 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Texasforever
Which do you want...?

How about the truth?

Since the cataclysmic events of September 11, 2001, and the start of the Afghan war, journalists and politicians have often spoken of a collision or war of civilizations, following Professor Samuel Huntington's hypothesis. Was that collision determined by the traditional relations between Islam and infidel non-Muslims? Both the historical roots of the question — and the answer — can be found in Bat Yeor's works. The philosopher Jacques Ellul wrote in the preface to her previous book that "the jihad is an institution, not an event." This new volume examines that "institution" and links it to dhimmitude, which also was to become institutionalized. This study covers a period of 14 centuries — from the rise of Islam and through the resurgence of dhimmitude in contemporary conflicts, such as the breakup of Yugoslavia and the Palestinian intifadas.

The author shows how, from the birth of Islam, the submission of the infidels led to the dispossession of their lands and to their economic exploitation through protection-ransom relationships. Freedom of worship was restricted for Jews and Christians, and Christian proselytizing was prohibited. Individuals were subjected to degrading treatment and their human liberties limited. Though Europe's advances in the East brought hope and protection to non-Muslims (the dhimmis), the rise of Arab nationalism — and the achievement of independence by Muslim states — was to mark a return of repressive regimes, not only in countries where the sharia is strictly applied (Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, Pakistan) but in countries which have "adapted," if not completely adopted, it (Egypt, Iraq, and the autonomous Palestinian Authority). [Source]

What do I want? I want the administration to quit jerking me around. I want a President who has the guts to point at the peope who are killing us and say "they are the Enemy" -- no matter how much it costs him politically.

All I want is for this administration to tell the truth about Islam. Instead, we're getting told that the people who destroyed our buildings, killed three thousand innocent people, and firebombed that nightclub are mere fringe members of some mythical "religion of peace". Baloney. Anyone who takes the time to honestly examine the history of Islam can only conclude that, far from being a religion of peace, the heresy of Mohammed is at its core a religion of war. By refusing to deal honestly with the American people regarding Islam, the administration only fosters more distrust among the people of the United States, and hastens the day when these same peaceloving people come back with an atom bomb to kill even more of us.

What does it take to make people realize that we have enemies? Three thousand people and a smoking hole in the ground and they still won't acknowledge the truth!

What do I want? I want an admission of the obvious truth: that it's Us vs. Them, and one or the other is going to win. But I'm not going to get what I want. Instead, I'm going to get to watch as we keep playing nice with the "peaceful" people of Islam -- people whose fondest dream is to see my civilization in ruins, my culture destroyed, my Faith stamped out and me and mine with our throats cut.

What I want only God can give. May He raise up a champion for your people -- a holy warrior who will take the banner of St. George in hand, cry "Deus vult!" and, in the name of Jesus Christ, unashamedly defend Christianity from her enemies.

34 posted on 11/24/2002 8:55:27 PM PST by B-Chan
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Scholars, and universities filled with students were the norm in Islamic countries while Europe was caught in the grip of the Dark Ages.

Yes, the elite were filled with wisdom and understanding. Meanwhile, the other 99% of the population remained in the Dark Age where they were thrown when the Arabs conquered the Roman Empire.

Most people today don't know it but in the Roman Empire literacy was the norm, at least for citizens and inside the major metro areas. Museums have litterally tons of letters written by common soldiers to the folks back home. The folks back home wrote back, as well.

35 posted on 11/24/2002 9:03:03 PM PST by jimtorr
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To: B-Chan
What do I want? I want an admission of the obvious truth: that it's Us vs. Them

I think the 4 or 5 thousand Muslims that died in Afghanistan understand it is "US v Them". I think Saddam Insane understands that it is "Us v Them". I think that those presently on trial understand that it is "US v Them" All of those at GITMO believe it is "US v Them" Our military folks that have been killed and wounded so far understand that is "US v Them". Every Mullah in the Middle East knows it is “US v Them”. What is not to understand? Every bomb dropped is your "admission" that it is "US v Them". Or is what you are saying that every Muslim in this country and around the world should be open season with no bag limit?

36 posted on 11/24/2002 9:03:22 PM PST by Texasforever
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To: jimtorr
"Yes, the elite were filled with wisdom and understanding. Meanwhile, the other 99% of the population remained in the Dark Age where they were thrown when the Arabs conquered the Roman Empire."

No, I don't think so.

37 posted on 11/24/2002 9:04:04 PM PST by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
You are the big one for history, go back and read it.
38 posted on 11/24/2002 9:10:37 PM PST by jimtorr
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To: Luis Gonzalez
The number of Muslims is 1.5 to 2 billion now. Even grouping Orthodox, Catholics and Protestants together, Islam is about equal in number or larger than Chrisitianity.

One of the reasons so many are converting to Islam in Europe, southern Africa and South America now is the theological unity of Islam.

In contrast to Christianity which is now really made up of distinct faiths that are still loosly grouped as Christian but encompass a diversity of belief that you don't se in Islam.

Think of it - there are the Orthodox, the Catholics and the Protestants. And w/in Protestanism the gamut runs from Anglicans to Baptists to 7th Day Adentists, pentecostals, the JW's, Mormons and Chrsitian Scientists.

What you really have here is the emrgence of new distinct faiths out of the originally unified Christian faith.

That disunity is proving fertile ground for Muslim missionaries in the West.
39 posted on 11/24/2002 9:12:28 PM PST by Douglas
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To: CWOJackson
Didn't we do the killing Muslims in the name of Christianity thing a couple of times already?

I've always heard 3rd times a charm......Lets Roll

40 posted on 11/24/2002 9:14:34 PM PST by SouthernFreebird
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