Holocaust exhibit a breakthrough as Croatia addresses wartime past

JTA (Global News Service of the Jewish People) ^ | November 22, 2002 | Adam B. ElliK

[fielding mellish]

That's because Mladen Schwartz is actually a Serbian Jew born in Belgrade. Those in Croatian emigre circles pin him early on as an UDBA agent. Croatia's relations with the Jewish commmunity are getting better all the time, as evidenced by the recent Jewish gathering in Dalmatia.

Jewish Croatians led by Hebrang, Stern, and the Goldsteins led the charge to leave Yugoslavia, and the KOS bombing of the Jewish cemetary was quite transparent.

Croatia is a long way from its WW2 past in relation to the Jews. Croatia's Jews, such as the ones mentioned above, are testament to that. Serb agents tried to foment discord for the obvious propaganda points that could have been the result, but Croatia's Jews saw through it quite quickly, much as they see through Mladen Schwartz.

[kosta50]

That's because Mladen Schwartz is actually a Serbian Jew born in Belgrade

You missed the point. The problem is that Croatia allows such demonstrations of intolerance as well as sale and display of Nazi/Fascist paraphinelia and symbols.

Whether Mladen Schwartz was born in Belgrade or whether he considers himself Serbian is irrelevant.

The fact is Mladen Schwartz was born in Zagreb in 1947.

My advice to you, since you signed up 3 days ago is: stop lying!

[fielding mellish]

That information is incorrect. Schwartz was born in Belgrade, as he himself has admitted.

As for the sale of Ustasha memorabilia, that's on it's way out.

Are they still selling pics of Arkan in Belgrade?

Stop smearing the Croats, I don't smear the Serbs. I lost too much on both sides, too many friends.

Who cares if I signed up 3 days ago, does that invalidate what I have to say?

[fielding mellish]

http://www.axt.org.uk/antisem/archive/archive2/croatia/croatia.htm

Ljubica Stefan, who has been awarded with the Righteousness among Nations medal by the Jerusalem-based Holocaust research institute Yad Vashem, has been a regular contributor to the pro-Tudjman daily newspaper Vjesnik.

In August 1997 relations between the state of Israel and Croatia were established. At the ceremony Croatian authorities apologized on behalf of the people of Croatia for crimes committed during the Second World War.

On 19 April 1998, on the occasion of the fifty-third anniversary of the escape of inmates from the Jasenovac concentration camp, a commemorative meeting was held at the Kameni cvijet monument in Jasenovac. Among those who took part were Slobodan Lang, President Tudjman's adviser on humanitarian issues; General Janko Bobetko, chairman of the parliamentary war veterans' committee, who laid a wreath also on behalf of the Croatian state assembly; Ivan Fumic, chairman of the Croatian federation of anti-fascist fighters; and Ognjen Kraus, chairman of the Zagreb Jewish community.

On 22 April 1998 President Tudjman received the credentials of the first Israeli ambassador to Croatia, Natan Meron. In his speech Tudjman said, among other things: 'During the Second World War, within the quisling regime in Croatia, Holocaust crimes were also committed against members of the Jewish people. The Croatian public then, during the Second World War, and today, including the Croatian government and me personally, have condemned the crimes that the Ustasa committed not only against Jews but also against democratic Croats and even against the members of other nations in the Independent State of Croatia.'

On 11 May 1998 the Croatian deputy prime minister and foreign minister, Mate Granic, apologized at Jerusalem's Yad Vashem Institute for the persecution that led to the deaths of Croatian Jews in the Holocaust: '[Modern] democratic Croatia in the strongest possible terms condemns fascism, racial hatred, xenophobia and antisemitism. I testify to the deepest regret and condemnation of the persecution, suffering and the tragedy of the Jews on Croatian territory under the Ustasa regime.'

[kosta50]

You need to provide a credible link showing that he was not born in Zagreb in 1947. Until then your Belgrade Serbian conspiracy story is in doubt.

Dispaproving of Ustashas is smearing Croatians? I can see where this is leading.

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Ma pusti im, covjece. Kako da ne vidis sta onih misli o' mi Hrvati? They think that we're all Ustashas and that we hate Jews. Why do you even bother?

[fielding mellish]

Schwartz is not an Ustasha. In fact, those in the HSP and abroad hate him and know he's an agent provacateur. As for myself, my father was killed by the Ustashas in 1944 in Bjelovar because he was a Partizan.

[Tamodaleko]

Many Croatians, with outside help such as the Simon Wiesenthal Center's exhibit, will have an opportunity to honestly face their overall WW2 history:

http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/text/x11/xm1103.html
Some six hundred thousand people were murdered at Jasenovac, mostly Serbs, Jews, gypsies, and opponents of the Ustasa regime. The number of Jewish victims was between 20,000 and 25,000, most of whom were murdered there up to August 1942, when deportation of the Croatian Jews to Auschwitz for extermination began. Jews were sent to Jasenovac from all parts of Croatia - from Zagreb, from Sarajevo, and from other cities and smaller towns. On their arrival most were killed at execution sites near the camp: Granik, Gradina, and other places. Those kept alive were mostly skilled at needed professions and trades (doctors, pharmacists, electricians, shoemakers, goldsmiths, and so on) and were employed in services and workshops at Jasenovac. The living conditions in the camp were extremely severe: a meager diet, deplorable accommodations, a particularly cruel regime, and unbelievably cruel behavior by the Ustase guards. The conditions improved only for short periods - during visits by delegations, such as the press delegation that visited in February 1942 and a Red Cross delegation in June 1944.
The acts of murder and of cruelty in the camp reached their peak in the late summer of 1942, when tens of thousands of Serbian villagers were deported to Jasenovac from the area of the fighting against the partisans in the Kozara Mountains. Most of the men were killed at Jasenovac. The women were sent for forced labor in Germany, and the children were taken from their mothers; some were murdered and others were dispersed in orphanages throughout the country.

[fielding mellish]

The article says: About 85,000 people, including 18,000 Jews, were murdered at Jasenovac, considered the worst Croatian/Ustasha concentration camp.

Not even my mother's sister and brother-in-law, who were both in Jasenovac in 1944 believe the ridiculously inflated numbers. My aunt and uncle were there, who in your family was there?

[kosta50]

Okay, look, this is not about you. I have no problem with your views and if we disagree so be it.

My main concern is that you claim Schwartz was born in Belgrade, my source shows he was born in Zagreb. I would like to see where you get that information and so far all you say is "he says so."

[fielding mellish]

All you did was take the first link from google. Why not email his party and see what those sick people will say. His party is called the HND. He's an embarassment to Croatia, much like Seselj is to Serbia.

[kosta50]

Not even my mother's sister and brother-in-law, who were both in Jasenovac in 1944 believe the ridiculously inflated numbers. My aunt and uncle were there, who in your family was there?

So, what were they doing -- keeping score? How would they know how many people were in the camp when that camp was operating for a minimum of 2 years prior to them "being there?"

[kosta50]

I am still waiting for the link. I don't call Croatian antionalist parties. Do you?

[fielding mellish]

They were rounded up after a sweep of Partisans and sympathizers around Bjelovar. 500,000 means 125,000 a year which means 3,000 killed everyday. They told me that the most they ever saw killed in the nine months they were there was 220 escapees who wer caught and shot. Good night.

[fielding mellish]

No. Schwartz is a foreign agent. I don't like HDZ or HSP. I go for LS because of the Goldsteins. Good patriots. Just like the late Gotovac.

[kosta50]

Sweet dream. I am still waiting for that link...

[kosta50]

A foreign agent? Hiding in a nationalist right-wing Croatian party, claims to be a Serbian Jew, born in Belgrade (according to you), a foreign agent working for -- which country?

[fielding mellish]

For Yugoslavia. Good night, again.

[kosta50]

They were rounded up after a sweep of Partisans and sympathizers around Bjelovar. 500,000 means 125,000 a year which means 3,000 killed everyday

Okay, let's do this fuzzy math again: 125,000/365 days = 342 per day, not 3,000. We have a tenfold exaggeration here. Considering that there were about 12 camps, comes to about 28 poor souls per camp per day. What math were were you using?

[kosta50]

For Yugoslavia. Good night, again

Don't mean to keep you up, but I think it's commendable that Croatia tolerates a known foreign agent in the middle of its capital and that his own staunchly nationalistic right-wing party keeps him as a member in good standing.

Hmmm...Good night.