Posted on 11/17/2002 9:03:44 PM PST by Leto
WHich is more visible (and irrating) to you as a taxpayer?
Which is more irrating and visible to the majority made up of non-taxpayers under the current system is the proper question?
Do you know how much you paid in sales tax last year?
6% of my income along with everyone else in my county.
Do you know how much you paid in property tax?
Majority of folks don't perceive property tax which is hidden in their rent.
Do you know how much you paid in income tax?
No, neither do you nor anyone else, for much of it is embedded in the cost of goods an services.
DO YOU PAY YOUR INCOME TAX
AT THE SUPERMARKET?
by D. Sherman Cox J.D. L.L.M. Taxation
WHich is more visible (and irrating) to you as a taxpayer?
An at the register retail sales tax on diapers, medicines, food, rent ...
The political reality of the income tax and by extension the Armey flat tax which just increases the personal exemptions removing even more people from the tax roles and hides more of the tax burden out of sight:
Walter Williams, World Net Daily, 10-25-2000
According to the most recent U.S. Treasury Department figures, in 1997 the top 1 percent of income-earners (those with income of $250,000 and higher) paid 33 percent of all federal income taxes. The top 5 percent of income-earners ($108,000 and over) paid 52 percent, and the top 50 percent ($36,000 and over) paid 96 percent of income taxes. Guess what the bottom 50 percent of income earners paid?
If you're among those who pay little or no federal income taxes, what do you care about tax cuts? Moreover, if you think tax cuts pose a threat to government handout programs, you might be openly hostile and support Al Gore's silly "risky scheme" talk. So many Americans paying little or no federal taxes makes for a natural spending constituency. It's like me in the restaurant: What do I care about extravagance if you're footing the bill?
Milton Friedman as quoted by Northwest Florida Daily News, 10-16-2000:
The Honorable James DeMint (R-SC)
United States House of RepresentativesTHURSDAY, APRIL 5, 2001
12:00 noon"In 1996, Congress passed a historic welfare reform law that has dramatically reduced the number of Americans who depend on welfare. In spite of this positive development, Representative DeMint is concerned about the steady growth of a welfare/entitlement state that extends well beyond the poor and is forcing millions of middle income Americans into dependency.
There has been a shift in the relationship between individuals and government, he argues, such that fewer and fewer are paying taxes at the same time that more and more are receiving increasingly generous benefits. If it becomes the case that most voters do not bear a financial burden for this largess, then there will be little to restrain--and significant political incentives to encourage--the continued growth of government. And at that point, DeMint warns, we have reached a major crisis in our democracy."
Right now the bottom 60% perceive little to no "Individual Income Tax" burden,(in many cases even a handout) and 70% of the voting public clamors for more from government looking for the top 40% of income earners/producers to foot the bill. That perception continues to grow ever stronger by eliminating even more participants from the Federal Individual Income Tax rolls as proposed in the tax reduction proposals through changes in personal exemption limits and other mechanisms such as the EITC.
Those who perceive little burden play the role of Poor little Paul:
| Effective Individual Federal Income Tax Rate (Percent of gross income) | |||||||||||
| Income Category | 1977 | 1979 | 1981 | 1983 | 1985 | 1987 | 1989 | 1991 | 1993 | 1995 | Projected 1999 |
| Lowest Quintile | -0.6 | -0.8 | -0.2 | -0.5 | -0.2 | -1.3 | -1.9 | -2.9 | -3.4 | -5.6 | -6.8 |
| Second Quintile | 3.6 | 3.9 | 4.6 | 3.5 | 3.9 | 3.2 | 3.3 | 2.7 | 1.8 | 1.8 | 0.9 |
| Middle Quintile | 7.1 | 7.5 | 8.3 | 6.8 | 6.8 | 6.1 | 6.5 | 6.3 | 5.9 | 6.1 | 5.4 |
Those that readily perceive some of the burden.
| Effective Individual Federal Income Tax Rate (Percent of gross income) | |||||||||||
| Income Category | 1977 | 1979 | 1981 | 1983 | 1985 | 1987 | 1989 | 1991 | 1993 | 1995 | Projected 1999 |
| Fourth Quintile | 9.7 | 10.4 | 11.3 | 9.5 | 9.3 | 8.7 | 8.9 | 8.7 | 8.5 | 8.7 | 8.4 |
| Highest Quintile | 15.8 | 16.3 | 17.1 | 14.5 | 14.3 | 15.1 | 15.1 | 14.8 | 15.5 | 16.2 | 16.1 |
To play the role of mean ole Rich Peter.
Don't mischaracterize my statements Leto. I have stated that I want the 16th amendment repealed and taxes on income expressly prohibited by constitutional amendment. I believe the enactment of HR2525 is the first an necessary step towards bringing that about.
That is a long way from saying "without repeal of the 16th amendment." By the way your are aware, are you not, that merely repealing the 16th would NOT end the potential for tax on wages.
Taxes on occupations, trades, professions have never been found to unconstitutional and have always been upheld as within the powers of Congress to levy a tax on under Article I Section 8 of the Constitution. So explicit prohibition(Which HR2525 finds for) is an absolute requirement to end the taxation of all income, not just that derived from the ownership of personal and real property.
I think that putting a NRST in place without repealing the 16th amendment would be a disaster. We would end up with both.
If true, then we will end up with both in anycase as an NRST without repealing the current income tax is possible and by your estimate inevitable now with the movement of tax collection on the internet is pushing that direction.
HR2525 repeals the income & payroll taxes we have placing an impediment to the implementation of both. A situation that does not currently exist nor would exist under a Flat Tax as the Flat Tax is both an income tax, and a VAT as it is.
Your protest that HR2525 does not immediately remove the 16th is simply non-germane to the issue. The conditions already exist for that which you claim to be against. HR2525 would put a substantial impedements in the way of democrats reintroducing an income tax after having gotten rid of such under HR2525.
You say you don't trust RATs, nothing to keep them from instituting both right now, other than conservatives against the move. U&nder the NRST that does not change, it only take 40 Senators to prevent reenactment of income taxes, regardless of who holds the majority in either house or the presidency.
Your argument simply does not hold water.
To All:
I favor H.R. 2525, Fair Tax Act!I'm working hard as a volunteer to help get the FairTax enacted. It would be the best possible legacy that I could leave to my seven(7) children, twenty-two(22) grand-children and twenty-one(21) great-grand-children... and to all future generations of Americans!
Think about it... no more Filing Tax Returns... no more IRS audits... April 15th becomes just another nice Spring day!
Here are some places to visit to learn more about this superb proposal (HR 2525) to replace the abominable Income Tax System (and IRS) with a single rate National Retail Sales Tax (NRST), i.e. tax us on what we SPEND, not on what we EARN!
FairTax FLYER! - A one page point-by-point summary of the proposed FairTax. Nice printout to post on Bulletin Boards and for handouts.
Cliff's HOME PAGE! - A quick-read intro to the FairTax.
FairTax Facts! - All you ever wanted to know about the FairTax (and then some)! I'd be pleased to have you sign my Guestbook.
W&M Committee! - Presentation of the FairTax to the House Ways & Means Committee. Next move: Get the Bill "rooted-out" of Committee and onto the House Floor for debate and, hopefully, enactment.
How's about you writing your CongressCritter and tell him/her that you want them to support the FairTax (HR 2525). When enough of us do that, you better believe they'll take notice.
Armey sez! - Even with Dick Armey expounding his own "Flat(Income)Tax," it's still a loser!
Denis Calabrese! - Armey's former Chief of Staff tells why he switched from Armey's "Flat Tax" to Linder's FairTax.
Brief History! - A short History & Summary of the FairTax. Good outline when you're presenting the FairTax in a group meeting.
Rebate! - Family Consumption Allowance for YR 2002.
Misconceptions! - Six common misconceptions about the FairTax. All are cleared-up here.
AFFT Petition! - Sign the Petition to show your support for the FairTax.
Americans For Fair Taxation (AFFT) is a "grassroots" volunteer organization which supports the FairTax for Fundamental Tax Reform (FTR) and is working hard to get Congress to enact it. The FairTax Bill has bi-partisan cosponsors.
You are cordially invited to logon to the AFFT Website! and join this fast-growing organization.
A number of FairTax supporters won seats in Congress in the November 5th election. All credited their support of the FairTax/NRST for contributing to their victory.
Cliff Cofer - State Director, AFFT Iowa Volunteer Team
Bye, bye... Income Tax (and IRS)! We won't miss ya' at all!
Read HR 2525. It's not regressive because there's a universal rebate that covers the cost of all purchases up to the poverty line.
That's one possibility, the problem is then that you encourage rent-seeking by businesses to have their products declared "essentials". It also allows nanny-state fans to deny tax-exempt status for items they consider "bad" (say, red meat). Much easier and more efficient to just provide a universal rebate and treat all products the same.
Why?
What if I have enough money to by beans? What if I want lobster? What if I have money for a new house?
My new house would have the tax. But I buy a used house. No tax.
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