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Bush and G.O.P. to Push for Medicare Drug Benefit (Socialists What rights will you give up?
nytimes.com ^ | 11/09/02 | By ROBERT PEAR

Posted on 11/11/2002 10:53:53 PM PST by USA21

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To: TLBSHOW
"But I think all Americans should have health care available. No matter what!"

They already do.

But it must be paid for.

21 posted on 11/12/2002 11:41:52 AM PST by Tauzero
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To: Holden Magroin
Well said. Then the Pubbies will scratch their heads and wonder why their majority evaporated just like it did in the years after 1994, or why conservatives stayed home or voted for the Libertarian.

Get the government out of health-care, end the regulation and high taxes - then seniors can afford prescription medication.

22 posted on 11/12/2002 11:54:22 AM PST by ServesURight
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To: USA21
This is nothing more than big-government pandering that's going to cause more problems than it solves.
23 posted on 11/12/2002 12:03:48 PM PST by Extremely Extreme Extremist
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To: TLBSHOW
The problem is, they promised to do it, so now they have to. This is a disastrous idea.
24 posted on 11/12/2002 1:25:04 PM PST by The Old Hoosier
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To: byteback
Republicans have to hold their nose and pass one or two on the side where people tend to vote the other way.

And what, pray tell, is there NOT to hold one's nose about? Exactly which level of government has become less costly or less intrusive?

Republicans have been holding their noses so long their nostrils have grown together, completely cutting off their sense of smell.

The only thing Republicans offer over Democrats is that they do the wrong thing a little more slowly.

Show me where I'm wrong.

25 posted on 11/12/2002 1:44:53 PM PST by jimt
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To: dark_lord
Do I think we ought to foot the bill for the elderly? No....On the other hand, I think prenatal care ought to be totally free.

Regardless of your value choices here, the major vice is that you think you have the right to choose how to spend my money - supporting YOUR values.

Got news for ya, Bub - you don't.

Personally I think we should spay and neuter those who produce children they can't or won't care for. The number of single mothers and non-supportive fathers would drop dramatically, as would welfare costs and crime.

26 posted on 11/12/2002 1:51:09 PM PST by jimt
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To: TLBSHOW
But I think all Americans should have health care available. No matter what!

Health care is available; the question is whether some people get their health care for free by making others pay for it.

Funny how people who claim that they "can't afford" health care (whine, sniff) can very well afford cable TV, dinners out, alcohol, lottery tickets and the like.

27 posted on 11/12/2002 2:18:34 PM PST by Henrietta
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To: Holden Magroin
you have to appease the market. if you not in, your out. by producing even socialist agenda will help expand gop majortiy. when we get the 60 senators we need and the court we will correct it all.
28 posted on 11/12/2002 2:22:43 PM PST by GoMonster
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To: TLBSHOW
If either of these ridiculous prescription plans are adopted, yeah the seniors are going to have their drug prices go down. But, the drug companies are stupid to take the losses. They will just jack up prices on the rest of us.
29 posted on 11/12/2002 3:18:25 PM PST by Sparta
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To: TLBSHOW
Also, do you want the nation's health care system, how screwed up it is, to resemble Britain or Canada. In both and most nations whose governments control their health care systems completely people have to wait for months to recieve doctor's visits and other essential services. Also, these nations do not have the access to the latest treatments we do in this country. Our health care is not perfect, but it is the world's best.
( I don't hear about Americans going to Canada for heart-bypass surgery, but I hear about Canadians crossing the border for treatment all the time.)
30 posted on 11/12/2002 3:24:53 PM PST by Sparta
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To: jimt
Regardless of your value choices here, the major vice is that you think you have the right to choose how to spend my money - supporting YOUR values. Got news for ya, Bub - you don't.

Logically, then, your position is all tax is theft. Period.

I respect your position but I will point out pigs will fly before your position becomes reality.

31 posted on 11/12/2002 5:07:13 PM PST by dark_lord
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To: dark_lord
Why not just make it legal to buy prescription drugs by mail order from Canada, Mexico or other countries where prices are much lower? Currently, you have to travel to the country of choice, present your prescription and then count your savings. Sounds like a win-win to me. Drug companies continue to profit (you don't think they're giving the stuff away, do you?), seniors and everybody else gets lower prices, government interference is reduced and Bush gets the political credit.
32 posted on 11/12/2002 7:23:44 PM PST by Doctor Mongo
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To: Doctor Mongo
Sounds like an excellent opportunity for an Internet based business affiliated with a Canadian drug chain. That way, it is not illegal to buy - since you are in effect buying "in Canada". Then the only question is delivery. And I bet FedEx would be happy to handle delivery.
33 posted on 11/13/2002 8:39:20 AM PST by dark_lord
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To: jimt
People want prescription drugs covered for low income seniors. I agree that gov't grows no matter who is in charge but the fiscal hard line never worked because the Rats always won both houses. Once Reagan didn't worry about adding to the debt people started voting Republican. Spend and borrow seems to work.
34 posted on 11/16/2002 1:22:07 PM PST by byteback
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To: TLBSHOW
But I think all Americans should have health care available. No matter what!

Well bully for you! And I guess you think I should pay for it, too. I think all Americnas should have a new red Mustang convertable Can we get a government program for that?

Health care *IS* available. The cost of paperwork and litigation triples the cost of going to the doctor. Even so an office visit is what, about $80? The question is "does everyone deserve as a birthright the most complex and complete health care we can invent". Remember medical science hasn't stopped, and as long as there is a market more and more high end treatments will continue to come out. MRIs are a good example. I don't see the logical case for this claim on my liberty. You must surrender an ever increasing amount of dollars to pay for health care for others because we, the collective, say so. Sounds very socialist to me. Not at all conservative.

35 posted on 01/03/2003 10:33:45 AM PST by Jack Black
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To: dark_lord
"Logically, then, your position is all tax is theft. Period."

Logically, my position is that taxes are an inherent evil that must be controlled. The Constitution actually lays out the few, narrow things that the Federal Govt. is allowed to do and also the mechanisms to fund them. Prior to the 1913 ammendment permitting it the Supreme Court found that the Federal Income Tax was unconstititional. But you know we'd still managed to run the governemnt for 120 years without them somehow.

The invasion of the Federal Govt into every aspect of life started under FDR, who was a Socialist. It violated the Constitution then and it violates it now. The Dems have used the Supreme Court to void the Constitition since his presidency. They know it, which is why they care so much about the Presidency and the Senate. The best thing GWB could do to restore the constititon is find justices to the right of Scalia and Thomas who do not agree with the ongoing voiding of the Constitution and who are prepared to rule abominations like Social Security unconstitional. I agree this is unlikely, but I'll keep working for it anyway. We real conservatives *are* moving the country to the right slowly, at the same time the R's are capitulating to the achieved artifacts of 50 years of liberal, democratic and unconstitional laws and programs. It's a race.

We need to keep finding, funding and recruiting the most right wing (ie: Constitutionalist) people we can to replace RINOs and Democrats. We should be looking for a Presidential candidate a little to the right of Bush2 now, else wise we might get a RINO like Powell shoved down our throats by the media and RINO insiders.

36 posted on 01/03/2003 10:45:40 AM PST by Jack Black
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To: Jack Black
I completely concur that GWB should find judges who are strict constitutionalists. (I do not, however, concur that such judges are necessarily "to the right of Scalia and Thomas", as I find that many so-called conservative justices are actually just right-wing judicial activists.) Constitutionalist justices are technically neither "right" nor "left" - they just adhere to the constitution, period. "Right" and "left" change meanings over time. The constitution doesn't.

For example, I believe it is clear that the right to an abortion should never have been found in the Constitution based on the "right of privacy". However, I would also assert that the Constitution cannot be used to make abortion illegal based on a "right to life". While it is true that article 14, section 1 states: "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;", it is also true that article refers only to "persons" who are "born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". Since the unborn are not born yet, they are not covered as "persons".

Ergo, while a constitutionalist justice would (should) throw out any "right to abortion" in the Constitution, they should also not find a "right against abortion" in the same document. And that would make the right-wing very unhappy. Too bad. Abortion should be a state issue, not a federal one.

37 posted on 01/03/2003 2:35:04 PM PST by dark_lord
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