Take A Stand: Vote against H1B, Boycott H1B Companies

Self | November 2, 2002 | FormerLurker

[FormerLurker]

There's something very wrong with all of this. Why is it that US corporations would flock to other lands for manufacturing and engineering? Many would say it's because of the cost, but what about the impact to our country when there aren't any jobs left (except for McD and telemarketing)?

[nastypumps]

You & others w/real life exp. are 100% correct. I know because of 30+ yrs. in international HR consulting w/an employment-staffing expertise that has earned me a place in Who's Who In the World for last 10 yrs.
The drain of living wage jobs has been relentless thoughout all of my career--we (and the rest of the world) have always had indentured workers of various kinds, but the current disasters started w/off shore manufacturing that few of us worried about because we were only to glad to buy the cheap goods it produced. (Remember the 1970s plea: "Look for the union label"?)
Then, female-dominated office/white collar jobs were negatively affected by a combination of inefficient but popular technologies (Where did the promised "paperless" office go?) & crappy, low-bid temp contractors & outsources like Manpower, Kinkos, Pitney Bowes, Wachenhut, et al (Where are the improvements in service they promised?)
All these & more were touted as another advance in just-in-time hiring.
Now, after a brief respite during the dot.com bubble & in specific areas of the country at different times, the on-going destruction of the "permanent job" (ie: stable, long-term employment at a compensation package suffient to have a dignified, middle-class existance) that attacked blue, white & pink collars has reached gold collars...tech & other skilled, educated, professional jobs (incl. medicine, law, acctg, teaching, etc.) w/HB1s only one of the factors.

What of unions, you ask? Corrupt, I answer. And foolishly focused for too long on dying industries plus, at best, suffering in the wilderness because of the mistaken snobbery of those who thought of themselves as professionals aligned w/the upper-most tier of management. (Big mistake. Just ask anyone from Andersen what their CPA & 80 hr weeks have bought them in the way of security).

As for the shortages that caused (sic) HB1 mania, there is no real labor supply gap--never was, in spite of our shrinking "native" birth rate, only a shortage of educated workers & avenues for affordable, practical retraining for the displaced & those w/outmoded skills. We, as a people, have failued to recognize the truth of what was happening to us & take care of business. Now we are paying for it.

Answers: Don't blame those who take advantage of our weaknesses. Save your money. Get out of debt & into the faces of legislators, political parties & trade/professional associations to force reversal of open border policies & create effective, profession-based 21st century unions; demand good public schools; report/root out payroll tax cheats/abuses & employers (of all sizes) hiring illegals...and...never again by into the illusion of "team oriented/people focused" organizations.

It's dog eat dog, has been, will be, forever...no matter how much we or our bosses wish it weren't. Just have to deal with it.

[FormerLurker]

Get out of debt & into the faces of legislators, political parties & trade/professional associations to force reversal of open border policies

Many have already tried to write to their "representatives". Those pleas have fallen upon deaf ears. It is now time to evict them from office and show them what it's like to be out of work. Not that they'll suffer much, because I'm sure they have enough money to last them a few lifetimes at least. But it WOULD be nice if they couldn't mold our national policy any longer...

[nastypumps]

You & others w/real life exp. are 100% correct. I know because of 30+ yrs. in international HR consulting w/an employment-staffing expertise that has earned me a place in Who's Who In the World for last 10 yrs.
The drain of living wage jobs has been relentless thoughout all of my career--we (and the rest of the world) have always had indentured workers of various kinds, but the current disasters started w/off shore manufacturing that few of us worried about because we were only to glad to buy the cheap goods it produced. (Remember the 1970s plea: "Look for the union label"?)
Then, female-dominated office/white collar jobs were negatively affected by a combination of inefficient but popular technologies (Where did the promised "paperless" office go?) & crappy, low-bid temp contractors & outsources like Manpower, Kinkos, Pitney Bowes, Wachenhut, et al (Where are the improvements in service they promised?)
All these & more were touted as another advance in just-in-time hiring.
Now, after a brief respite during the dot.com bubble & in specific areas of the country at different times, the on-going destruction of the "permanent job" (ie: stable, long-term employment at a compensation package suffient to have a dignified, middle-class existance) that attacked blue, white & pink collars has reached gold collars...tech & other skilled, educated, professional jobs (incl. medicine, law, acctg, teaching, etc.) w/HB1s only one of the factors.

What of unions, you ask? Corrupt, I answer. And foolishly focused for too long on dying industries plus, at best, suffering in the wilderness because of the mistaken snobbery of those who thought of themselves as professionals aligned w/the upper-most tier of management. (Big mistake. Just ask anyone from Andersen what their CPA & 80 hr weeks have bought them in the way of security).

As for the shortages that caused (sic) HB1 mania, there is no real labor supply gap--never was, in spite of our shrinking "native" birth rate, only a shortage of educated workers & avenues for affordable, practical retraining for the displaced & those w/outmoded skills. We, as a people, have failued to recognize the truth of what was happening to us & take care of business. Now we are paying for it.

Answers: Don't blame those who take advantage of our weaknesses. Save your money. Get out of debt & into the faces of legislators, political parties & trade/professional associations to force reversal of open border policies & create effective, profession-based 21st century unions; demand good public schools; report/root out payroll tax cheats/abuses & employers (of all sizes) hiring illegals...and...never again by into the illusion of "team oriented/people focused" organizations.

It's dog eat dog, has been, will be, forever...no matter how much we or our bosses wish it weren't. Just have to deal with it.

[nastypumps]

Memo to me...no excuse even if you are disabled...don't let sudden hand muscle spasm cause you to hit to hit the "post" button 3 times in a row!!!! Sorry all.

[FormerLurker]

Don't worry about it, it bumps the thread up to the top.. :)

[hedgetrimmer]

Bump this!

[sinkspur]

He is now working in a very undesirable company and has many qualified American friends out of work due to H1Bs.

We don't work with H-1Bs; the quality of their work can't be guaranteed or controlled as we can with work coming out of outsourcing subsidiaries in India.

My company is phasing out all H-1Bs as we move their work offshore. It's cheaper, and there is the opportunity to develop domain expertise, concentrate it, and capitalize on the synergies by reselling that expertise to our customers.

In addition, much of the work is done after hours, so projects can be tracked more easily.

There's simply no need for H-1Bs any longer with offshore outsourcing gaining strength.

[sinkspur]

Sinkspur lives for the moment and for irritating people by defending indefensible positions.

You certainly hate dealing with reality, RLK. That's something that never changes with you.

[taxed2death]

Welcome to the club.. You're getting hit with the same BS that we in the North East were hit with over the last 15 years, only up here it was manufacturing jobs. All of our jobs went overseas. Now you see the real hidden costs of Globalization, Gatt, Nafta, etc. Don't worry though, there's plenty of 8 dollar an hour jobs to be found. You might be able to earn half of what you used to earn if you pick up two or three of these "Mc-jobs"

Don't worry, some idiot will come along soon and post that "it's good for the consumer"....."we had to move our jobs overseas to stay competitive" or other such crap.

[sinkspur]

Deserves to be repeated:

It's dog eat dog, has been, will be, forever...no matter how much we or our bosses wish it weren't. Just have to deal with it.

[janetgreen]

Don't the H1B visa personnel get laid off before citizens

That's not the way the companies are doing it. In fact, some companies in "Silicon Valley" California are using the American (veteran software engineers) to train the Indian H1B workers in the ways of the company, then they replace the veterans with the lesser paid Indians. More American jobs lost for profit/greed.

[sinkspur]

Don't worry, some idiot will come along soon and post that "it's good for the consumer"....."we had to move our jobs overseas to stay competitive" or other such crap.

Here, this was written by another poster, just for you:

It's dog eat dog, has been, will be, forever...no matter how much we or our bosses wish it weren't. Just have to deal with it.

[taxed2death]

I agree with everything in your post with the exception about Unions. Yes they are corrupt....but stop and think for a minute about the "dying industries"...these dying industries in the US BECAME FLOURISHING INDUSTRIES in third world countries at the expense of the American BLUE COLLAR worker. Now that white collar workers are suffering the same fate that blue collar workers have endured over the last 15 years, it becomes a "hot" topic.

Hmmmmmm manufacturing industries here in the northeast have been completely gutted in the last 15 years.

Welcome to the club. Enjoy your search for a McJob or two.

[FormerLurker]

Hmmmmmm manufacturing industries here in the northeast have been completely gutted in the last 15 years.

It wasn't just the "blue collar" jobs that went out the door at around that time. It was many of the so-called "hi-tech" positions involving electronic assembly and testing. Those positions started heading south to Mexico back in the 80's. Now they've jumped the ocean to China in order to utilize free slave labor rather than paying someone in Mexico a dollar a day.

[taxed2death]

I was very lucky. I am self employed with 110% job security. I was reading my tea leaves long ago, regarding this BS globalization agenda. I still am blue collar, charge $60.00 per hour for my services and thank my lucky stars every day I made the decisions I did about 12 years ago. I get pissed when I see how local companies (UTC) and others pulled the rug out from under the feet of my friends over the last dozen years.

It just seems like all the white collar guys / gals want a shoulder to cry on. They all thought this relocation of jobs would never happen to them. Where were these white collar people when their fellow blue collar worker bees (sometimes working in the same plants) jobs were shipped overseas.

How does it feel? Pretty sh!tty I would imagine.

Just remember:

1. "it's better for the consumer"

2. "we have to look out for the bottom line."

3. "if we don't ship our jobs overseas, we can't remain competitive."

[FormerLurker]

There's simply no need for H-1Bs any longer with offshore outsourcing gaining strength.

Soon they'll be no need for outsourcing either, because the majority here in the US won't be able to afford to pay a phone bill, never mind broadband for a computer that might as well be a boat anchor..

[FormerLurker]

Where were these white collar people when their fellow blue collar worker bees (sometimes working in the same plants) jobs were shipped overseas

I've never agreed with it, although I'm sure that there's many here that have and perhaps still do. How could anyone with an ounce of foresight think that it would be a good idea to ship all of our strategic manufacturing capabilities and infrastructure to another country, let alone one that has promised to "make LA glow at night"?

[taxed2death]

I agree, it's bad enough that has occurred, but I can't figure out for the life of me, how the US can contunue to incurr the damages brought on by the IMBALANCE of trade!!!!, or the trade deficit, as some call it. It's really a no brainer, even for a paint sniffer such as myself :)

[Red Jones]

bump