Navy's use of sonar halted, to spare whales

The Seattle Times ^ | Nov 01, 2002 | Kenneth R. Weiss

[Pern]

"There was no justification for giving the Navy a blank check to operate this sonar in 75 percent of the world's oceans," said Joel Reynolds, an attorney with the Natural Resources Defense Council.

Yes there is, to save sailors lives. Sailors that risk their lives every day so whiney liberals like this are free to persue their latest crusade.

[BlueLancer]

"To achieve that balance, she ordered the Navy to meet with environmentalists and work out specific places acceptable to both sides."

In other words, specific places that can become safe havens for whatever submarines a potential enemy might like to deploy against us.

Wonderful. (sarcasm off)

[lsee]

Oh, by all means, endanger human lives and the safety of a nation over whales?

Let's see...humans...whales...humans...whales....Hmm.

Suddenly Hillary popped into my head. Wonder where that came from?

A whale in a black pantsuit pathetically beached on the sand...so sad.

[Maelstrom]

Who appointed this moron again?

[AppyPappy]

I think we use passive sonar now anyway.

[free me]

Court: U.S. Magistrate Judge for the Northern District of California Born: July 10, 1953 Appointed: 1997, by the judges of the Northern District Previous work of note: Administrative Law Judge, California Department of Insurance Law degree: Yale University Law School More info

[Musket]

More suicidal idiocy from the Left.

[Pern]

You are correct, kinda. When I was in as a Sonar Tech in the Navy, we used passive sonar to detect the Soviets Nuke boats (Typhoon, Akula, November, etc.). Since the downfall of the Soviet Union, they've improved upon and sold their Tango and Kilo diesel electric subs. They are deathly quiet, and can operate in shallow waters where our Los Angeles or Seawolf SSN's can't go. Active sonar is needed to counter this threat, especially since Red China is aquiring (and now building) these type of SS's.

[grobdriver]

"There was no justification for giving the Navy a blank check to operate this sonar in 75 percent of the world's oceans," said Joel Reynolds, an attorney with the Natural Resources Defense Council.

Except for the fact that the enemy does not respect stupid judge's decisions - and will choose those areas to operate much like the North Korean mIGs dashed across the Yalu river which UN pilots were forbidden to cross.

If ever one, just one of my shipmates is injured or worse due to this action, I vote this moron judge and attorney be taken to the nearest warship and keelhauled.

[Kevin Curry]

Appeal this Marxist nonsense to the 9th Circuit. There may be one panel of that less-than-august body that would uphold this, but the full court ought to jettison the ruling.

If it is upheld, then it is time to go back to Congress and slap the Democrats silly with this.

This ruling is akin to banning transvestites and flaming homosexuals from appearing in public and parades in San Francisco because of the grotesque and sense-shocking way they disfigure the environment.

[Non-Sequitur]

In her 58-page opinion, the judge, who is based in San Francisco, said the Navy may use the sonar to detect enemy submarines during wartime and must be allowed to train with it beforehand.

So our enemies are supposed to allow us to schedule training beforehand?

[stuartcr]

Only to listen, not to actively find, or target. If the bad guy isn't making much noise, ie, electric boats under water, you have to go active.

[pfflier]

At first I thought this was a joke. Then I became incredulous.

What science is being used to prove a potential danger to marine mammals?

What jurisdiction does a US judge have over international waters?

And last, obviously her kid isn't risking his butt in the Navy.

Its only a matter of time before the entire military training system is dismantled over fairie shrimp and fuzzy mammals.

[Tallguy]

Would this Judge rather see a US nuke sub get splattered by a torpedo fired from one of these acoustically invisible SSK's? THAT would be a greater environmental disaster than a few beached whales!

...will choose those areas to operate much like the North Korean MiGs dashed across the Yalu river which UN pilots were forbidden to cross.

That was the official policy of the USAF during the Korean War. Once it became know that these were Russian and Chinese pilots, US pilots operating on their own initiative would regularly zip across the Yalu to orbit the offending air fields. If a MiG attempted to take off, it died. This was very economical since a single F86 could negate an entire soviet fighter regiment. Veteran American pilots have been admitting to this in recent years...

[FreedomPoster]

>>Since the downfall of the Soviet Union, they've improved upon and sold their Tango and Kilo diesel electric subs. They are deathly quiet,

For an idea of how quiet (at least when on battery, and not diesel, power), go out to your garage and listen to your car battery.

I'm curious if this device is shipboard, sub-based, or dipping from a helicopter. Generally, active sonar from a ship or sub is a bad deal, as it shouts *HERE I AM* for enemy targeting purposes. But if it's so powerful, I wonder if a helicopter can power it.

The answer to that question is probably classified.

[A2J]

A federal judge yesterday prohibited the U.S. Navy from combing the world's oceans with a powerful new sonar, ruling the booming sounds meant to detect enemy submarines could cause irreparable harm to whales.

I have never fully understood how a judge in a small section of the country can, by the swift act of a pen, control every other section of the country. This ruling also controls the "world's oceans."

No doubt this ruling will clearly be overturned or ignored.

[stuartcr]

If anyone is interested, use a search engine and look up SURTASS LFA.

[AppyPappy]

How do sonobouys affect the situation?

[AppyPappy]

I'm curious if this device is shipboard, sub-based, or dipping from a helicopter. Generally, active sonar from a ship or sub is a bad deal, as it shouts *HERE I AM* for enemy targeting purposes.

In peacetime, that shouldn't be a problem although it ruins the game.