The Truth about the USS Liberty

College Voice of Connecticut College | Will be Nov. 1st | Yoni Freeman

[rmlew]

The aircraft carriers USS America and and USS Saratoga and their supporting task force were also within 400 miles, reported as 300 miles out during the attack. Of course, an Israeli attack on them would have resulted in the end of the State of Israel. It's safer to attack a lone ship and machine the survivors, but obnly if you can blame it on someone else- the Egyptians, say. Was that the idea?

Only in your mind. Israel did not sink teh Liberty and suvivors were not machine gunned.

[jmeadors]

I think it's disingenuous (sp?) to say there was never an investigation.

Not disingenuous at all.

The USNavy JAGC even admits their Court of Inquiry did not investigate the attack.

I challenge anyone who claims there was a complete and comprehensive public Congressional investigation of the incident to produce that investigation including the evidence and testimony that supports the findings.

Merely mentioning the attack on the USS Liberty during an investigation of worldwide communications (for example) does not make for an investigation of the attack on the Liberty.

Warmest regards
Joe Meadors
joe@ussliberty.com

[yonif]

Dean Rusk: Its funny his name is quoted in this article: http://www.crescentlife.com/heal%20the%20world/did_israel_attack_wtc_&_pentagon.htm Torpedo boats sighted the ship on radar and plotted the ship's speed at more than thirty miles per hour-which, under Israeli rules of warfare, made the target an enemy vessel which could be fired upon. When no flag or other identifying marks could be seen, an air attack followed. Twenty minutes later, Israeli torpedomen fired five torpedoes at the ship, after the Liberty had refused the torpedo boat commander's request to identify itself. Only later did the Israelis realize that the ship was American.

Read this Excellent page: http://pnews.org/art/1ussliberty.shtml

[yonif]

Good points.

[hanuman]

To prevent anyone from escaping the badly wounded ship, the Israelis even destroyed the few surviving life rafts that were put into the water following the call to abandon ship. "I watched with horror as the floating life rafts were riddled with holes." said Lieutenant Lloyd Painter, in charge of the evacuation. "No survivors were planned for this day!" Stan White, the top enlisted man on the ship, also witnessed the lifeboat attack. "When 'prepare to abandon ship' was announced, what was left of our lifeboats were released overboard; these were immediately machine-gunned by the torpedo boats. It was obvious that no one was meant to survive this assault."

Body of Secrets,, P. 219.

[jmeadors]

suvivors were not machine gunned

Depends upon how you define the term "machine gunned.

After they finished their torpedo attack the MTB's did slowly circle the Liberty while MTB personnel fired with machine guns from close range at Liberty crewmen who ventured topside to help their wounded shipmates.

[jmeadors]

"http://www.honestreporting.com/critiques/2001/26_liberty.asp "

See also:

http://ussliberty.org/lib-logs.htm

[jmeadors]

the Liberty had refused the torpedo boat commander's request to identify itself

As soon as the torpedo boats came over the horizon I was on the Signal Bridge trying to signal them. I repeatedly sent "USS Liberty US Navy Ship" by flashing light.

Their response was a few bursts of machine gun fire.

Quoting Hank Roth as a source authority on the USS Liberty!

Now I've seen everything!

[jmeadors]

Just curious to know if there is any condition or situation under which you would conclude that the attack on the USS Liberty was deliberate and premeditated.

Warmest regards,

Joe Meadors
joe@ussliberty.com

[rmlew]

I wrote
" could [you] explain to us why the Liberty was within the exclusion zone and in a war zone??"
Mr Meadors responded
In the preparation for an article in the Naval Law Review, LCDR Walter Jacobsen JAGC researched the claim that the area had been declared a war zone. He found that none of the parties to the war had ever declared the area a war zone.

Well, it was between two waring countries and the Israeli government had asked that the US keep ship out of the area. That sounds like a de facto war zone to me.

" Were you a few hundred miles away from the Syrian border, out of range, to spy on the Golan operations? Or were you there to find evidence from a war-crime that did not occur?"

When attacked we were about 77 miles from Ashdod. As to the "true mission" of the ship I haven't a clue. Hopefully that information will come out when the US government deems the attack an appropriate issue to investigate.
The issue has been investigated 4 times. I doubt that the CIA and NSA were forthcomming and I'm sure that information was withheld by the Joint Cheifs. However, it seems to me that you could spend some effort in looking into these issues instead of simply attacking Israel. It seems to me that US intelligence put you into danger without cover, and then left you and your crewmates out to dry to cover their behinds.
Likewise I'm sure that the US Navy has no desire to be questioned on why it refused to have a liason in Israel, to prevent this type of incident.

"Can you explain why Israel would attack the USS Liberty, if it could jam your signals?"

Haven't a clue. Hopefully that information would be forthcoming in the yet-to-be-held US government investigation of the attack.


You do raise a good question.
If the Israelis really did think they were attacking an Egyptian ship why did they jam radios on USNavy tacitcal frequencies.

As far as I know only Mr. Ennes has made the claim.
It does seem odd, though. Israel would have had nothing to gain by attacking the Liberty, if it was doing something that it did not want the US to know about and could ensure temprary silence.

"Can you also expain your involvement with Americans for Middle East Understanding"

Don't know what you mean by "involvement." They offer a forum for people interested in issues like the Liberty attack and let us tell our story in our words.

Both the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars have passed resolutions calling for a Congressional investigation of the attack. Are you going to ascribe dark intentions to their efforts as well?

I assume that you are active in VFW for the same reason I donate money to them. You care about US veterans. Obviously, as a veteren you are quite involved and I commend you for doing so. However, the AMEU is not some apolitical group. They are an anti-zionist group which want to deligitimise Israel.
If you only desire is to see a full investigation of the attack on the USS Liberty, then I would think that you would stay away from anti-Zionist groups and protest when anti-semetic groups use your writtings.
I believe that you are angry with Israel for teh incident (understandably so) and see some conspiracy to protect Israel. This is the basis of your desire to damage Israel and US-Israel relations.

I will state quite categorically that our government is full of people in authority who see no problem with American life rafts being deliberately machine gunned in the water with impunity and without remorse.

It seems very odd to me that Israel would have instigated such an atrocity, only to then have its ships pull back.
Wouldn't it make more sense (if there was some plan) for the Torpedo boads to ensure that the enite crew were dead, and the Liberty was sunk?

[rmlew]

You were not shot in the water and left for dead.

[rmlew]

A claim never substantiated by any review board.
Think logically for one second. If the Israelis wanted to kill everyone aboard the USS Liberty, they had the means and opportunity. Instead they were recalled.

[jmeadors]

Battle and fire damage, signal bridge

The picture was actually taken from the port wing of the Bridge (03 level) looking aft.

The round structure with 3 holes in it is an antenna mount.

Every antenna mount and gun tub had similar direct hits to them during the initial straffing runs by the fast attack Mirage aircraft.

Obviously the intent was to destroy our defensive and communications capabilities on the first attacking runs.

Clearly the attacking forces had done their homework prior to the attack.

In the upper right portion of the photo is the bottom of the port side flag bag.

[jmeadors]

You were not shot in the water and left for dead.

Depends upon how you define your terms.

What happened was the attacking MTB's machine gunned life rafts we had dropped over the side in anticipation of abandoning ship. They then slowly circled the ship firing from close range at anyone who ventured topside to help their wounded shipmates.

They then took one of the destroyed life rafts aboard and departed the scene for over an hour without making any offer of assistance whatsoever.

The result of their actions is that the crew of a torpedoed American Navy ship was without any chance for survival in the event the ship had gone down.

[hanuman]

> A claim never substantiated by any review board.<

How can it be subtantiated if crew members were forbidden from submitting the statements in the first place?

> Think logically for one second. If the Israelis wanted to kill everyone aboard the USS Liberty, they had the means and the opportunity. Instead they were recalled.<

Yeah, recalled AFTER their signals intelligence picked up U.S. radio traffic from the Liberty to home base and found out that the jig was up and military reinforcements were on their way. . .

[jmeadors]

Wouldn't it make more sense (if there was some plan) for the Torpedo boads to ensure that the enite crew were dead, and the Liberty was sunk?

During their initial air attack they targetted our defensive and communications capabilities by scoring multiple direct rocket hits at every antenna mount and gun tub so we couldn't call for help or defend outselves.

Their second wave of the air attack was with napalm to drive the crew below decks.

This was followed up with three torpedo boats who fired five torpedoes -- one of which scored a hit in our starboard side.

The torpedo boats then slowly circled the ship while firing with machine guns at anyone who ventured topside to help their wounded shipmates. They also aimed their machine guns at the waterline with several bullets crossing the mess decks (full of wounded crewmen). They then machine gunned life rafts we had dropped over the side in anticipation of abandoning ship.

Then, when they finally ceased hostilities, did they offer us any assistance immediately?

No.

They left the scene immediately only to return over an hour later with an offer of assistance.

Some would argue that that scenario reflects very good planning if the intent was to sink the ship, kill all the survivors and ensure they were incapable of contacting anyone with a request for assistance.

If the torpedo that did hit had hit just a few feet forward or aft of where it did we would have gone down like a rock. As it happened the torpedo hit one of the supporting I-beams and most of the explosion was directed away from the ship.

Only by the grace of God did we survive.

[jmeadors]

How can it be subtantiated if crew members were forbidden from submitting the statements in the first place?

During the Court of Inquiry that was convened on the Liberty the President of the Court asked for and received written statements from some 65 Liberty crewmen.

Those written statements as well as the written statement prepared by Jim Ennes are missing from USNavy files.

[SJackson]

The USNavy JAGC even admits their Court of Inquiry did not investigate the attack…I challenge anyone who claims there was a complete and comprehensive public Congressional investigation of the incident to produce that investigation including the evidence and testimony that supports the findings…Merely mentioning the attack on the USS Liberty during an investigation of worldwide communications (for example) does not make for an investigation of the attack on the Liberty.

Wow, that was post 122, and, with the exception of a couple posts from some bogus Admiral it’s a rational thread. A good sign.

Your issue, at least with me, seem’s to be the quality of the investigations. I do approach the subject from the perspective of one who accepts the “fog of war” explanation. I have confidence in Congressional investigations just as I do in our court system. Got Dahmer, got Gacey and Speck, missed OJ, missed WJC.

I understand your perspective, but I’ve seen nothing to convince me that all the previous investigations were flawed. You may not accept the findings, you may not think the evidence supports their findings, you may think they’re incomplete. But I’m not convinced the investigations, nor their explanations, are bogus. Information declassified over the last few years, which has led to renewed interest (good) hasn’t revealed any “smoking guns”.

Personally, I don’t much object to another investigation, Congress spends money on lots of less worthwhile projects. But I think you’re a long way from making the case that there’s a lot to be learned from it.

[hanuman]

I think once reason a new investigation might be fruitful nowadays is that the whole topic of signals intelliigence and the NSA is not quite the ultra hush-hush subject now that it was back in the late 60s. It was not for nothing that NSA stood in many government officials' minds for "No Such Agency." It was not until 1975 and the Church committee hearings that the "National Security Agency" was even mentioned in non-classified government documents.

While I believe the accounts of the Liberty Crew members as to what actually happened there, I do not necessarily think that the U.S.-Israel relationship was what led to the degraded quality of the investigations. The LAST thing that anybody in the U.S. defense establishment at that time wanted was to draw any more attention to the NSA. They just wanted this thing SHUT DOWN no matter what. Any deeper investigations would only keep the inquiry alive and bring still more attention on the folks at Fort Meade. Horrors!

[archy]

Only inyour mind. Israel did not sink teh Liberty and survivors were not machine gunned.

I didn't say they *sunk* the Liberty, though not for lack of trying with their five torpedoes. Do you still deny it was attacked by Israeli aircraft and 3 torpedo boats?

As for whether the Israeli gunners would have murdered those aboard the two liferafts they shot up [and took the third in tow] unless you were one of the gunners, I don't expect you know what they had in mind. I'll grant you that they may be more correctly described as *machine-cannon* rather than machineguns. But the US Navy named a gunnery training facility for the sailor who who returned fire against the butchers who were going to gun down those on the rafts, when he drew the fire of the Israeli gunners instead.

And Captain Mcgonagle received the Congressional Medal of Honor for his actions during the enemy attack.

-archy-/-