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A Lost Generation of Job Seekers?
E-Commerce Times ^ | October 28, 2002 | Peter Coy, Michelle Conlin & Emily Thornton

Posted on 10/28/2002 12:17:35 PM PST by Willie Green

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To: grb
There are plenty of jobs, but they are being shipped offshore to foreign countries. How does this effect the economy? It's not just unemployment. It's thousands of workers who make good money that is longer going into our economy. It's going into the economies of India, Pakistan, China, and Russia to name a few.

I hear this a lot but the other side of the equation is never mentioned. Consider this scenario:

A company employs 100 people who make an average of $40,000 a year to sell a widget that retails for $100. The company sells 100,000 of these widgets a year. That's an annual payroll of $4,000,000 a year but the consumers have to pay a total of $10,000,000 for these 100,000 widgets.

Now the company moves the factory overseas to take advantage of lower labor costs and that widget now retails for just $40. So while $4,000,000 a year in local income is lost, consumers now have an extra $6,000,000 in their pockets to spend on other things because they are paying 60% less for these widgets. That extra $6,000,000 a year could be used in local restaurants, home improvements (putting contractors to work) or to buy boats (putting more boatmakers to work).

This is a simplistic scenario to be sure but bottom line is that cheaper consumer goods is not always a bad thing. And the money saved by cheaper consumer goods is often spent someplace else (or invested). Imagine how much more expensive everything would be if all consumer goods were manufactured here in the U.S.A. by factory workers at union scale.

I would prefer that manufacturing stay in America too. But between government taxation and regulation, not to mention the artificially set wages forced by unions, you can't really blame them all that much.

21 posted on 10/28/2002 3:27:01 PM PST by SamAdams76
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To: Gorzaloon
And if a child-free couple made a few hundred thousand in the good years, and saved nothing, while having few expenses, now they know more...and have learned more then a hundred thousand in "Feel Good about Failure" tuition could ever have taught them. The good ones will rise stronger for it, the bad ones will be doing what they should have been in the first place.

Thank you. Well said.

22 posted on 10/28/2002 3:31:24 PM PST by valkyrieanne
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To: jiggyboy
These crybabies (including the writer) have no idea how well they have it compared to the 1982 recession and the 1990 recession.

My salary got downsized by 1/3 in the 1990 recession. I was able to continue working without missing a pay check which helped a bit. My pay got back to normal within a couple years. It didn't take me long to figure out to have a rainy day reserve fund..

23 posted on 10/28/2002 3:39:11 PM PST by EVO X
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To: Irene Adler
An MBA twenty years ago is not the same as an MBA today. This is true of all academic credentials. They have been devalued by over-abundance.
24 posted on 10/28/2002 3:46:03 PM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: SoDak
I have a lot of friends who spent 10k on things like MCSE certifications looking to change careers that are now scratching their heads and wondering why they did it.

I'm one of those fools! In 1999 I spent close to $11,000 on my MCSE at Boston University. Two nights a week and Saturday mornings in school for nearly an entire year and a whole lot of cramming in between. Just looking at those MCSE ExamCram books sends shivers up my spine!

When I graduated in early 2000, I was very fortunate to realize that the house of cards was coming down and I held on to my current job.

Can't say the training was a total waste though as I have occasion to put it into practice at work and it definitely has made my position there a little more secure. But I still can't look at an MCSE ExamCram book without cringing and regretting all the money I spent on it.

25 posted on 10/28/2002 3:47:57 PM PST by SamAdams76
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To: SoDak
"I have a lot of friends who spent 10k on things like MCSE certifications looking to change careers that are now scratching their heads and wondering why they did it."

Thanks. I feel better, now. I ONLY paid $3,500 for the MCSE certification.

Signed,
Scratching my head career changer
26 posted on 10/28/2002 3:57:26 PM PST by BillyJack
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To: SoDak
Unfortunately a lot of jobs formerly open only to those with CS or EE degrees went to clueless folks who went to a 6 month "tech school" and managed to get "certified". HR types generally aren't bright enough to understand why hiring these people is a bad idea. This could have only happened during a period like the 90s when companies had convinced venture capitalists that "earnings didn't matter". To be fair I've run across more than a few degreed programmers and engineers who didn't know their a$$ from a whole in the ground. But now that software jobs are no longer trendy, hopefully the clueless will go back to studying mass communications and urban studies. That will leave tech jobs to tech-minded individuals.
27 posted on 10/28/2002 4:09:21 PM PST by StockAyatollah
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To: SoDak
Towards the end of my expensive and pointless sojourn in the halls of pseudo-academe, the man in charge of the university's "Career Center" gave us a little talk emphasising the importance of "networking." More important than your GPA, or the courses you took, is WHO you know. He re-enforced this by confessing (proudly !!!) that he got HIS job as head of the Career Center because of networking, rather than credentials.

Aside from a handful of high profile business schools, the MBA is objectively worthless. And what makes a degree from Stanford, Wharton, or Harvard valuable is not the content of the coursework, but the fact that all the "right" people attend, so you get to rub elbows and exchange business cards with the optimates.

I once attended a w(h)ine-n-cheese gathering of the alumni from my business school and the desparation was palpable. It reminded me of a singles bar in the '70's at 3AM on a Sunday morning. The room was filled with people who were all at some level aware that they had just wasted two or three years of their lives and an equivalent tens of thousands of dollars, yet they hoped to be discovered like starlets at the soda fountain. Pathetic.

If ever you feel tempted to purchase an indulgence, or enroll in an MBA program, drop me a line and let me dissuade you. Your money would be better spent in day-trading or as seed capital to set up your own business. Or if you want to really improve your chances in the business world, spend the money on golf lessons and get yourself a membership in a toney country club.

My degree was a double major in management and information systems. At this point, I am so disgusted with the job hunt that I am researching the possibility of going into business for myself . . . as a tailor and costumer.

28 posted on 10/28/2002 4:13:36 PM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Gorzaloon
now they know more...and have learned more then a hundred thousand in "Feel Good about Failure" tuition could ever have taught them. The good ones will rise stronger for it, the bad ones will be doing what they should have been in the first place.

Reality!

29 posted on 10/28/2002 4:32:20 PM PST by PFKEY
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To: PFKEY
I have been contemplating returning to school for another degree. For some reason I felt that is what I needed to do. I consider myself lucky to have survived yet another round of downsizing. I appreciate the candor with which all of you are telling your stories or offering suggestions.
30 posted on 10/28/2002 4:50:58 PM PST by Unknown Freeper
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To: Willie Green
It is cheaper to hire an H1-B visa immigrant, since there is no social security employer contribution costs, they are exempt. That means that american workers cost $8000.00 more to hire, and that could make the difference between profit or not. If all amerians were replaced by foreigners with visas, it would add up to a substantial savings.
31 posted on 10/28/2002 5:02:54 PM PST by waterstraat
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To: waterstraat
If all amerians were replaced by foreigners with visas, it would add up to a substantial savings depression and/or revolution.
32 posted on 10/28/2002 5:05:06 PM PST by clamper1797
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To: waterstraat
Those under the age of 50 are far more likely to see all of the dead aliens and crashed flying saucers out in Area 51 than a Social Security check that won't bounce. But they keep getting to pay FICA taxes--or get priced out of a job by the employer contribution to FICA.

Thank you, FDR.

33 posted on 10/28/2002 5:05:59 PM PST by Poohbah
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To: clamper1797
If all amerians were replaced by foreigners with visas, it would add up to a substantial savings depression and/or revolution.

There will be no revolution, the black segment has already been replaced by the hispanics as a voting block to be catered to. The white americans will also become a minority of insignificance at election time, and certainly in no position to start a revolution - they will be so outnumbered by the year 2100, that it would be a joke. The old European customs and religions will die off in America along with the old white guys.

Massive immigration keeps prices low, profits high, and labor cheap. The true price of labor, is far far below what our previous closed economy used to have to pay. American companies no longer have to pay an inflated wage, and they wont. No company in their right mind will pay more than the world price of labor. In all likihood, unions will all but disappear except for the service industry, e.g. teachers, police, etc, and manufacturing will soon disappear entirely from the American continent.

There are hundreds of millions of workers in INdia, China, Mexico, and Eastern Europe that are ready and willing to take the jobs that Americans do not want. The Republicans and the Democrats are both for huge increases in immigration to take these jobs. The immigrants seem to have no problems at all finding plenty of work, thousands of them come here each day , each week, each month, day in and day out. By 2050, with current trends continuing, America will have 400 million people, and by the end of the century it will have a billion.

There are currently only a very few people who want to change the way we are headed, and each year they are even more outnumbered. The days of young americans earning $100,000 are gone forever.

34 posted on 10/28/2002 5:28:21 PM PST by waterstraat
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To: Black Birch
It didn't take me long to figure out to have a rainy day reserve fund.

A point well taken, and deserves repeating. Whoever is blessed enough to have a job in this current economy is a fool if they aren't socking away every extra dollar they make.

I have a steady job, and my wife and I are putting away a 9-12 month supply of cash in a separate savings account (this ENTIRELY apart from the 401k, IRA, etc). We are nearly 2/3 of the way there. Until we have that in place, we are not buying ANYTHING we don't need. No dining out except special occasions, and no movies or magazine subscriptions. We get videos from the library and live on the cheap. I've forgone buying a new TV to replace our 12-year old model, and we are buying our clothes from TJ Max and Ross Dress for Less. In today's economy, you are a fool not to save.

35 posted on 10/28/2002 5:28:57 PM PST by fogarty
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To: Unknown Freeper
I've been in the tech industry for 10 years and have not been affected negetively in the early 90's when I got into this and this past few years of the tech meltdown. My division/department had its first ever round of layoffs earlier this year but its impact was light.

As anyone who remains in the field can attest to. The attitude has changed significantly from one of security to one of gratitude.

In some was that is not a bad thing.

36 posted on 10/28/2002 5:30:02 PM PST by PFKEY
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To: SamAdams76
I was lucky enough to weasel my way into a good job I wasn't really qualified for. All I did was read a lot, had no certs or anything. I've begun collecting them now, so that I wouldn't have to worry so much about convincing the next guy (if there is a next guy, I love my company) that I could do the job.
37 posted on 10/28/2002 6:59:23 PM PST by SoDak
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To: StockAyatollah
I guess I'm somewhat guilty then. I have a business degree, not CS, but I have a staff of 10 CompSci grads who bring the big problems to me, because I've weathered the storms over the years, read constantly, and have seen a lot of real world problems, and most importantly, I still know how to deal with old technology that permeates every IT shop.
38 posted on 10/28/2002 7:06:39 PM PST by SoDak
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen
Wow, the wisdom is appreciated. Good luck in that. I feel a career change coming sometime too. I like my company, but I feel like doing something different, and am getting weary of computers. Who knows what it will be though, I certainly don't.
39 posted on 10/28/2002 7:10:24 PM PST by SoDak
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To: fogarty
Cool, sounds like you've been listening to Dave Ramsey too.
40 posted on 10/28/2002 7:12:53 PM PST by SoDak
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