The Current Status of the Smith & Wesson Agreement with the ATF and State Governments.

10-10-2002 | VANNROX

[JoeSixPack1]

Anybody got any advice on this one -

http://www.hi-pointfirearms.com/380acp.html

[Double Tap]

Do you want an honest opinion?

[JoeSixPack1]

I already got an earfull from my brother the gunsmith.

You just agreed with him. :-)

I'll cross that one off.

[Shooter 2.5]

Agreed. The boycott worked. It brought the company back into American hands with owners who may have never agreed in the first place. It humiliated a CEO and we dropkicked clinton's boy, gore away from the White House.

Smith and Wesson is an American company with American workers making American guns.

[Double Tap]

Good idea.

[mississippi red-neck]

.WHat's this about kimber? Who makes their frames?

My mistake... er.. sort of.

According to this 1997 Oct. issue Pg.96 of Guns And Ammo TestFire, McCormick, supplies the sights, the grip safety, the hammer, the trigger and the sear. The frame and the slide come from a common vendor Jericho Precision of Yonkers, New York.

Jericho supplies the frames and slides for such customers as Kimber, and such customsmiths as McCormick, Wilson Combat and Nowlin Manufacturing. The article goes on to say on pg. 97 that Kimber had just acquired Jericho's manufacturing operation and they would continue to supply the slides and frames to those firms who had previously had been purchasing from Jericho.

This aticle was written by Jan Libourel of Guns& Ammo. Maybe someone has something more recent.

[mississippi red-neck]

Joe if you are looking for a small caliber for social occasions and light attire you might want to consider the Kel-Tec 32. Eight shot 10.5 oz, loaded. 3/4" wide, locked-breeched not as fancy as some but very reliable and won't hurt the pocketbook too bad, About $250. Me and a couple of friends have them and shoot them. Love mine.

[JoeSixPack1]

Thanks. I just did a quick looksee.

I've got a 1917 Savage .32 already, But stopping power above having to empty the clip is more desirable. :-)

[Another Galt]

I have no intention of selling that firearm.

[Another Galt]

I did not say that I had the lightweight Officers', I have the full-steel model, and that SOB is heavy. I did not realize how heavy until I started carrying the Kimber. One thing that I really like about the Kimber is that it is built on the Colt Officers' frame specs, so the magazines are interchangeable. How does the lightweight Officers' model compare to the Colt Defender? I know that the Defender is quite similar in size and weight to the Kimber.

[Another Galt]

Crud, wish I had known that before buying the Kimber, though I may have bought mine before their deal with the devil...

[Lizard_King]

My understanding of the Kahr situation is that while the owner is the son of the Moonie reverend, he is definitely estranged from his father. An interesting family, to say the least.


The Kahr PM9 is a fine 9mm, conceals easily, quick to break down, accurate, and really small. I think it is a great alternative for smaller concealed carry, and I am glad I bought it. The polymer frame and small size ensure that even my 105 lb, 5'4" girlfriend can conceal it without need for a purse.

My standby remains my Glock 30, though. It is not that hard to conceal as a polymer subcompact, and like a wise man said, it's not there to be comfortable but to comfort you.

My Glock has not had a mechanical failure of any sort, has not jammed once, and is dead on accurate +/- user error. I have put 1900 rounds through it, and as many as 350 at a time without cleaning (when I was breaking it in...I am not normally lazy about cleaning), and not one failure to load. That is the kind of thing I look for when my life is on the line, and the Glock Safe Action trigger safety is, in my decidedly unprofessional opinion, the safest, most ingenious, and practical for CCW.

If you're only going to have ten rounds available to you, better make them .45 caliber...

I promise that is the last Glock evangelizing you will hear...until provoked again.

[Lizard_King]

Oh, and Kahr is 100% American made as far as I understand it.

[Mr. Mojo]

S+W make the best small revolvers on the market, bar none

I like the feel, grip angle, and ruggedness of the Ruger SP-101 over the J-framed S&W, but the latter has a superior trigger.

[Mr. Mojo]

My understanding of the Kahr situation is that while the owner is the son of the Moonie reverend, he is definitely estranged from his father.

Interesting....I read that the "Reverend" helped Justin with the funds to start his business (Kahr), and has been an enthusiastic supporter. Who knows.

One thing I do know about the head Moonie is he owns a great newspaper (The Washington Times).

[Lizard_King]

Thank you for your hard work.

To my mind, the S&W debacle has been an illustration of classic bait-and-switch, with the only thing standing between the gun-grabbers and victory the fact that gun owners are notoriously brand-loyal, and when that loyalty is betrayed, it takes a lot more than a PR campaign to resurrect it.

You take the weakest link in a chain...offer the management a deal that simultaneously covers their asses, frees them of responsibility, and undoes all their competitors by breaking ranks. Then, should there be a public scandal, as there was in this case, the top guy's head is sacrificed on a platter with much fanfare, and the EXACT SAME POLICIES remain in place. It is as if after the Nazis were defeated, we had placed all the blame on Hitler, left everything else untouched, and merely ignored the continued grinding of the Holocaust.

Granted, that is an extreme analogy, but I think it is important that no matter how much responsibility for the move the prez and the top brass bore for the move, we realize that the company as a whole must be destroyed, both for what it is continuing to do, and for what it represents on the moral scale of our constitution.

[Lizard_King]

The Colt Defender is about 22.5 oz, the Kimber Ultra Carry II is about 25 oz.

The lightest Colt I know of other than the Defender (ie that is currently being manufactured) is the lightweight end of the XSE series at 26 oz. My Glock 30 weighs in at about 27 oz, but it will total out to a little more than the others with bullets since it holds 10+1 rounds. Hence, the Kahr MP 9, weighing in at just under 16oz...for "light days" I don't mind a 9mm...

[Lizard_King]

The plot around Moon thickens, then. Must be an interesting scene at Christmas get-togethers...Guns N Moonies...

[quietolong]

[1] First off. Let's be clear. The "Gun Grabbers" are still active.

So true I said this after 9-11 and every other time I hear " We got them on the run"

In WI. here is how the GG's used 911 to try and hide there goal.

WCCA legislative alert: Doyle's anti-terrorism bill bans guns

We cheer when we stop this group. shout We Won ! But the same people stay in power. And what has been pushed back. They just pick up were they left off. After a short time.

[dd5339]

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