Drivers of White Vans are being treated as criminals

Vanity | Self

[Texasforever]

I don't see handcuffs and didn't say I did. You try getting on the ground in that position and hold your wrists together behind your back like that

That is the whole point. The guy is not in a position to do a whole lot and as I said, I have been in that position and it is not that tortuous it is simply a position. That picture represents about a 10th of a second. No one knows what happened in the next frame or the next hour.

[Howlin]

Whatever the reason, I'm glad you started posting. Now don't stop.

[TigersEye]

Goodnight! ; )

[rbmillerjr]

"So you defend these tactics?"

Yes.

So, you're not for profiling?

Although personally I don't think they are in a white vehicle.

[justshe]

Legally:

You have statutory authority to intervene with military force in a state's domestic disputes, upon request from the state legislature (or governor), at 10 U.S.C. 331:



Whenever there is an insurrection in any State against its government, the President may, upon the request of its legislature or of its governor if the legislature cannot be convened, call into Federal service such of the militia of the other States, in the number requested by that State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to suppress the insurrection.



Similar statutory authority permits you to use military force without any state request to address circumstances whenever and wherever you determine that the laws of the United States cannot be enforced (10 U.S.C. 332):(1)

Such circumstances could include when the United States is under an attack that renders normal law enforcement powerless.



Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State or Territory by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion.

[chadsworth]

There are no guns drawn in the first pic, but I'm sure they were at the initial stop.

Conjecture at best, but probably true, a normal safety precaution under the immediate circumstances.

If you were the officer, and knew that a possibility existed that this was the sniper, how would you make the approach to protect yourself from the aforementioned possibility?

[justshe]

Further:

The U.S. Supreme Court has herein decided that you have dictatorial power, including the power to suspend the Constitution.:



What the Supreme Court held was simply this: that the president of the United States has the constitutional power, under such circumstances as he shall deem imperative, to brand as belligerents the inhabitants of any area in general insurrection. In other words, he has an almost unrestrained power to act toward insurrectionary citizens as if they were enemies of the United States, and thus place them outside the protection of the constitution. This, it seems hardly necessary to state, is dictatorial power in the extreme. The Constitution can be suspended after all -- by any President of the United States who ascertains and proclaims a widespread territorial revolt.(3)

[spunkets]

"Do you agree that these particular 2 vans closely meet the most detailed description of the van witnesses have placed at the scene of the home Depot shootings and you concede that approaching them more seriously is warranted? "Yes, they could have the bads guys in there.

"Do you also not see the possibility that there could be another person secreted in the back and that before they look inside they want the driver secured?"

Sure. The driver's checked and he stands aside. 2nd pic just has guy with hands up, not a complaint here. 1st pic has both cops back to van and phtographer facing van and subjects. There is no threat. Cops may even be releasing subject.

The idea is that unless there is proof the subject is the bad guy, or proves himself a threat, he is one of the gazillions of folks that just happens to have a white van and doesn't deserve to be put on the ground.

[chadsworth]

I read this guys earlier post. I think this individual has pretty well summed up the thread for what it is and has the AmericanPatriot pegged.

[Cultural Jihad]

You can give up whatever rights you so choose, but forcing me to give up any of my rights is an initiation of force. You can do the paranoid thing. I'm sticking to principle.

Ho hum. (5) No doubt you decried the nationwide stand-down of all commercial air traffic on 9-11, too.

[nunya bidness]

First point out the loaded firearms being pointed in either picture. Then document that all white van owners in the vicinity are being treated this way. Then you may have some basis for your "concerns".

Tex, the cops were making felony stops last night. Guns drawn and aimed, index fingers off of triggers. Drivers were taken away from the vehicles and detained (either cuffed or put in cars). It was on most of the cable news networks.

If you want to take my word for it.

What's interesting is that they were profiling/stopping white vans but not occupants. That indicates that they don't have/won't release suspect descriptions.

[COB1]

"I'm sticking to principle."

Dream on, ostrich!
You can pretend all you want to that we are not at war, but the future will dictate that you're wrong.
We ARE at war, and this war is being fought right here as well as overseas.
You WILL give up some of those precious rights you talk about whether you like it or not!

[Texasforever]

Sure. The driver's checked and he stands aside. 2nd pic just has guy with hands up, not a complaint here. 1st pic has both cops back to van and phtographer facing van and subjects. There is no threat. Cops may even be releasing subject.

The guy is on the ground because that is one of many positions the cops use to secure the driver while they complete the search of the interior. This thread is nothing but speculation based on a snapshot. I have to smile at your "he could just step aside" comment though. There has never been a time when cops did this when in a situation such as this.

[spunkets]

"how would you make the approach to protect yourself from the aforementioned possibility?"

Gun drawn held at ready, not pointed at the occupants. Partner handles(covers and questions) all subjects exiting vehicle, while I check inside. Nobody gets rough, degrading, or otherwise uncivil treatment, including being aimed at, unless they act like the bad guy would. Once I done, which is very fast, stories are considered, info recorded and we're on to the next task.

[Texasforever]

I asked you last night about white vans versus ballistic tests and you stated that white vans were open to probable cause searches. I can find the post if you like. If there is probable cause that white vans are implicated in the sniper shootings then the police must approach each van as though the sniper was inside.

[straightbend]

I don't normally say anything, just read the stuff but this is a little different situation. I doubt that I will post much, until I get disgusted with what I am reading. These antilaw jerks are playing right into the scheme of those that want to take this nation down. They are being this way just to center on themselves, and being overly concerned about having their rights hampered a little - Big deal.

[nunya bidness]

You WILL give up some of those precious rights you talk about whether you like it or not!

Fascinating.

[redrock]

"You WILL give up some of those precious rights you talk about whether you like it or not!"

Nope...will NOT.

RIGHTS come from our Creator...and NOT from any form of Government.

....and as such I will not surrender ANY of my Rights.

You, or anyone else, can take the cowards way out...and surrender...if you choose to.

redrock

[Texasforever]

To: Texasforever

Are owners of white box vans being approached?

That's different. That is based on probable cause. In the case of gun records they are crossing the line.

It's as if they said the shooter was using a felt tip pen.

They are broaching a legal definition. In this case the gun based not on ballistics but rather on caliber.

2663 posted on 10/20/02 2:44 AM Central by nunya bidness
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[redrock]

"Fascinating."

Really...isn't it!

redrock