A detailed look at what the Smith & Wesson Company agreed to do for the Cinton Administration!

US Department of Housing and Urban Development ^ | FR Post 10-19-2002 | HUD Editorial Staff

[vannrox]

For some reason, I was under the belief and the understanding that S&W was not adbiding by these agreement, but now I can see how cleanly we were sold down the river! I found this information doing research for a S&W model 99 pistol. I thought that it might be a nice gun to have. No LONGER!

[vannrox]

S&W I am ashamed of you. Take that US Flag icon off your web site!

[petuniasevan]

PING!

[BenR2]

Sickening: Absolutely sickening.

Clearly the Federal Government now views gun ownwership in this country is now de facto a privilege and not a right (the words of the Second Amendment to the contrary notwithstanding).

[Mr. K]

In defense of S&W, they were pretty much certain they would be sued a la 'big tobacco' law suits if they did not comply... and knew they couldn't survive a reaming like that.

Remember this was like months after the first big tobacco extortio... I mean law suits were won in state after state.

But they did grab their ankles pretty quick.

[vannrox]

So, in short, when you purchase a Smith and Wesson firearm, you can be assured that your gun and your personal information has...

• Your gun has been fired by S&W before being sold to you. They then entered the digital image of the casings in a system compatible with the National Integrated Ballistics Identification Network and accessible to ATF.
• S&W participates in "ATF’s Access 2000 program", which establishes electronic links with ATF and enables high-speed tracing of your guns.
• The price that you paid for the pistol had a hidden 1% tax that went to the NEA.
• Purchasing the gun made your actions with it the business of both S&W and the ATF. As shuch you are legally bound to adhere to any product recalls and or modifications that they deem necessary after you purchased the firearm.
• S&W Provided quarterly sales data to the ATF. This information included the complete gun sales records that you filled out when you purchased the gun.
• S&W with the ATF have a "security Plan" for securing YOUR Firearms if for some reason you are judged not worthy of owning it.
• And, of course, you had a detailed Brady Gun Background check that is more rigorous than what is normally present when purchasing a fire arm.

[newwahoo]

Is the boycott still on? I felt bad going for a Sig, as I would have liked to support an American gunmaker, but the deal with x42 was too much. I thought I heard that the new owners were going to repudiate it? I wonder what ever happened with that...

[Jonathon Spectre]

About two weeks after S&W committed financial suicide by caving to the Nazis there was a big S&W sale at a local gun shop. S&W representatives were there to show off their wares and try to make sales. It was quite possibly the most embarrassing thing I've ever actually seen.

No one in the store would even look at them. "Not interested." "No thanks." "I'll never buy from y'all again." I added my own, "Thanks, but you couldn't give me one, sell them to the federal government," when they tried to woo me.

Just out of curiosity I returned the next day. They were still there, and they had marked their guns down to what couldn't have been very much more than invoice. They had some *very nice* guns there, and there they stayed. I hung out and talked to the clerk for about two hours just to see what happened. Not one person who came in showed the slightest interest in them or their guns, and most were downright hostile/disgusted. Just before I left they gave each other "The Look" and packed up and took off.

The moral to this story is: The good will punish association and accomodation with evil. Reap what you sow.

[jim_trent]

This is 2 or 3 years old. What is the point? The owners of the company who made that agreement are gone. The new owners and the present administration have ended the agreement. I thought this forum was for current news, now ancient history.

[vannrox]

"...The owners of the company who made that agreement are gone..."

So what. According to USC COntract Law. The contract is still inforce. And it is being enforced.


"...The new owners and the present administration have ended the agreement..."

I hope you are correct. COuld you please kindly give me a URL to verify this. That is why I was looking in the first place. I wanted a S&W 99, but I was unable to determine whether the agreement was revoked. Unless it has been revoked, or the company has completely reorganized under chapter 11 the odds are very likely that the agreement is still in force.

I would really like the link. Other than that, I am afraid that you are basing your thoughts and comments on "hearsay" and nothing legally binding.

Like I said. As far as I know, the agreement is still in place.

[blau993]

Read the story in the Wall Street Journal last week. The agreement you posted is ancient history. The company has since been sold. Its new management is all American, and they have repudiated this agreement. They have rejoined the fold, insofar as defense of Second Amendment rights is concerned. No boycott is in effect nor is any justified.

[mark the shark]

I believe that I also read a similar story on this subject in a recent NRA American Rifleman issue, that stated that S&W had backed out of this "Alleged" agreement from the
Clinton era. I'll try to confirm that with a google search.

[vannrox]

Thanx. I like the SW 99. It's a sweet pistol. But I won't touch it with a mile long wire if the agreement is in any was still un-resended. Otherwise, as soon as a new administration comes to town, the agreement could suddenly be reactivated.

[mark the shark]

I believe that I also read a similar story on this subject in a recent NRA American Rifleman issue, that stated that S&W had backed out of this "Alleged" agreement from the
Clinton era. I'll try to confirm that with a google search.

[mark the shark]

OOPS on the double post. So far all I could find on the S&W web site was reference to the agreement they had with the city of Boston, which was apparently base on a similar foundation when compared with the Fed agreement, but I could find no solid reference to the fed agreement and it's status. I'm still looking though, I'm going to look for my old American Rifleman mags. Try to let you know what I find.

[SteveH]

Consider also HK USP Compact in .40...

[ozzymandus]

Get the Walther version. Mine is .40 cal and it's sweet!

[Skibane]

I doubt that you'll find much further information. S&W informally decided to stop honoring the terms of the agreement, and the current administration informally decided not to hold them to it. The agreement still exists, and could still be enforced by a less gun-friendly administration.

[fire_eye]

Y'all quit playin' with them there toys and buy yerselves a Kahr,
y'hear?

[Capitalist Eric]

I recommend Kimber- they make top-notch weapons, for a (relatively) reasonable price... I tried Sig, S&W and Glock... They were OK, but when I fired a Kimber...?

WOW!

Sweet craftmanship, flawless operation. And a trigger that's as smooth as silk...

Why would I buy a cheap piece of cr@p like S&W, compared to a Kimber???

Be good,