Sniper May be Using These: "Silent Cartridges" of USSR & Russia

world.guns.ru ^ | 2000 | world.guns.ru

[Double Tap]

No, the article is about a 7.62x39 "based" suppressed cartridge. The cartridge in the article is necked up to 9mm and fires a 235gr. bullet.

Your original comment led me to believe that you thought there was no Russian made small bore military cartridge.

[Dr Warmoose]

"... .30, and a wannabe .50BMG."

Careful, politicians have been trying their best to stigmatize the 50BMG as good for nothing but killing people. (Someone needs to take them out on a Praire Dog Hunt - "red mist").

Actually, if the perp(s) were using a 50BMG as the politicians keep wanting killers to use, this dude would have already been caught... Satellite imagery would see the muzzle flash and people from miles around could be polled to triangulate on the noise... :)

[Double Tap]

Unless they have gotten around the laws of physics, there will be some recoil. There are different ways to disipate it, but it will still occur.

[John H K]

Actually, there's really not much of a "muzzle flash" to speak of...particularly in daylight in a civilian situation with no one looking for one. It's not like a normal run-of-the-mill deer rifle has a muzzle flash like a Civil War musket.

I predict when the perp is caught...people are going to be disappointed..and even upset...at how ordinary, non-descript, and possibly even boring the perp and his background is, and it will turn out that the weapons used were run of the mill and inexpensive. He's not going to live up to the bogeyman hype.

But that will, I predict, lead to a massive cottage industry of books and articles about the massive team of Al Queda Super-snipers with secret Russian Ammo that were the REAL killers....because people want the more INTERESTING story.

[Jeff Gordon]

Another gun related thing for the liberals to ban.

[LibKill]

not sure how there can be no recoil

You have that nailed down.

Except for rockets and 'recoiless rifles' (which are all 57mm or larger and fire an explosive projectile) there is always a recoil.

The recoil from a .223/5.56mm NATO round is negligible. A little girl could shoot one all day and never complain about the recoil.

The noise is someting else, very loud.

[OldFriend]

About the second day of the murder spree a caller to WABC radio said he thought it was a Chechnyan terrorist. Of course, he was laughed off the air............

[spunkets]

The bullets are not silent, they are fibbing. They really fib when they claim they have a 235gr bullet that is silent when fired and has 2-3 times the energy of the conventional round it substitutes for. IOW the whole claim is do do. All they show looks more like a rocket projectile and it's not silent as with other rockets. It must have a higher velocity to get the E and if it does, it's going to sound very similar and definitely not silent.

[John Jorsett]

I've been wondering why no one at the school has said anything about hearing a gun shot.

If the shooter is hundreds of meters away and using a subsonic round, you actually won't hear anything. I saw a videotape of a demonstration of this. The shooter was at some considerable distance (don't recall exactly how much) and the camera showed the target bucket getting hit. The only sound was that emitted by the bucket as it was pierced.

[lavaroise]

Indeed, the bullet shock wave or impact noise on paper target is much louder than the diffuse bang 300 yards away.

[blackbag]

~This is not in regard to the special ammo mentioned.
But regarding no silencer since explosion heard.
A silenced rifle could still be the case.
If using high velocity ammo the explosion can be supressed.
However the sonic crack/explosion will be heard when it refects off objects. The location the sound came from
doesn't have to be the origin of the shot fired. Also,
a properly suppressed rifle will hide the flash.

[ARCADIA]

"They have twice the range of ordinary sniper weapons and a killing accuracy of a mile."

It sounds like someone is reading a manufacturer's warning printed on the side of a box of ammunition. This is a general CYA statement that has nothing to do with killing accuracy, performance, or even the caliber of the ammunition. Most rimfire .22 cal ammunition states a range of 1-1.5 miles, while most center fire rifle ammunition carries a warning of 5 - 6 miles. Neither type will go anywhere near that range unless you have found a perfectly effective rifle, and have hurricane force winds helping the bullet along. But, it does help to remind the shooter to act responsibly. Remember that the performance is determined by a combination of factors which to a large extent includes the efficiency of the rifle you are using. The ammo manufacturers are simply exercising caution.

If this ammunition is silent then it has been toned down to a velocity below the speed of sound, reducing the standard 5-6 mile warning to about a mile. We should also note that underpowered ammunition, like this, can no longer generate enough energy to work the mechanism of an automatic or semi-automatic firearm.

[NAV1]

I've shot competitions with M-16 with standard iron sights to 500 yards, and we got spotting scopes to use between shots. If you stand behind somone shooting at that range you can see the turbulence with the scope that the bullet leaves behind, and every time it'll peak at about 6 feet over the impact spot when it's at the midway point.

In any case, these shots the sniper is making are friggin easy by any standard, it's the egress without detection time and time again that's the tricky part.

[browardchad]

Is this the ONLY report of a shot that was heard?

There have been many more witnesses that heard a shot. In addition to those noted here by others, Fox also interviewed a truckdriver who was across the road from yesterday's shooting. The guy is also a hunter, and he was absolutely certain that what he heard was a rifle shot -- before he saw the victim.

[elhombrelibre]

I think they made some 5.56 for export for our sporting markets. Their smallest caliber is a 5.45mm.

[Francohio]

According to SOF, which is rarely wrong on these matters, sniper versions of the 5.56 are shooting with sub-MOA accuracy at 700 meters in Afghanistan.

The report went on to state that the hits at extreme ranges with the sniper versions of the 5.56 are not always as lethal as the snipers might wish, but reliably on target.

Scoped varmint rifles chambered for the old 220 Swift, 222 Remington, etc. which are not that different than the 5.56, were reliably accurate on varmints at 500 yards. The right 5.56 rifle, in trained hands, may therefore be quite capable of inflicting the damage seen in the DC attacks. We also don't know the range of the shots. It's possible the guy is only 150 yards away. That's a long way off in a suburban environment with lots of trees, buildings, and cars to break the line of sight and bounce the sound around.

I also think it possible that a single, unsupported shooter could be responsible. Only one shot is being fired per attack, so there is no need for a spotter. If it is a team, the other guy is the driver.

[CroftonFreeper]

Shots were heard at all the shootings. There is no silencer involved

[Cloud William]

*ping*

Go to the source article at the top of this thread and read... it describes the suppressed ammunition that you were informed about with regard to your invention. How goes the BATF approval process?

[daylate-dollarshort]

I spent some time in the Corps and took a couple of physics classes.

This "silent bullet" article is unadulterated BS.

The recoil from a 180 grain round is something close to 40 lbs. It will make you wince twenty minutes before you fire your rifle. I'd pay someone else to fire a round of the weight given in this article. After firing twenty or so 180's during one session at the range it took a month for the bruise to go away.

Besides, why spend the money even researching this garbage. The Mousaad [sp?] killed a great many with un-silenced 22 shorts. They simply removed about half the powder from the cartridge- walked up behind their target and popped him (or her) behind the ear at close range. Extremely effective and virtually silent. Best of all---CHEAP.

This is not that complicated people. Get out the balistics book and simply do the math. Can't be done, at least not on this Earth or in this dimension. I seriously doubt these "silent bullets" could penetrate a tin-foil helmet, much less a steel one. HA!