Bush and His Big Gov

WorldNetDaily ^ | 10/05/2002 | Kyle Williams

[A.J.Armitage]

It may make us Elmer Gantry, but some of us know what self-control is.

[Luis Gonzalez]

Great.

So, now show us all a prime example of that magnificent self-control, and quit posting to me.

[Sabertooth]

Thanks, Luis.

Hey, something came up the other day that added a different twist to the question of militarization of the borders. There was a report of some 118 incursions of the Mexican military across the border with Arizona in the last few years. Apparently a lot of these are related to corruption and drug smuggling.

Now, on the one hand, I think with proper hardware and political support, the Border Patrol would be capable of dealing with this... but that would divert them from their civilian responsibilities. It would also put them in a quasi-military role.

It seems to me that if the Mexican military is involved, then targeted some very specific and limited response by our military wouldn't technically violate the Posse Comitatus Act. But I would be reluctant to start down that road because of the large number of folks who want the American military dealing with Illegals, which I still firmly oppose.

What do you think the policy should be in this instance? I don't have a position at the moment, as I haven't thought it through, and there may be legal upsides and downsides with regard to using the Border Patrol or the American military against rogue elements within the Mexican military, of which I'm unaware.

I'm flagging a few others for input.

[Ajnin]

The Border Patrol has BORTAC at the national level that would be able to ensure that the Mexican military would never cross the border alive again. However, instead of protecting our own border, BORTAC is off galavanting around the world wasting the taxpayers money. Several stations along the border to include those in Arizona have their own Special Response Teams. Why aren't those teams laying a smack down on the Federales? What kind of PC BS are the Chiefs of those sectors pulling? Once we make an example out of the Mex Military they will stop crossing the border.

[Sabertooth]

What does BORTAC stand for?

Would engaging Mexican Military incursions here appropriately fall under the jurisdiction of the Border Patrol?

[Marine Inspector]

Once we make an example out of the Mex Military they will stop crossing the border.

Agreed. Unfortunately, Washington has shifted your duties from Law Enforcement to Search and Rescue.

[Marine Inspector]

Would engaging Mexican Military incursions here appropriately fall under the jurisdiction of the Border Patrol?

I don't see why not. They are here illegally.

BORTAC = Boarder Patrol Tactical Unit.

[Sabertooth]

I don't see why not. They are here illegally.

But they're also military, hence my confusion.

We don't bring the American military against non-military Illegals, so there's a distinct separation of juridictions there. That's why I'm wondering if the Border Patrol, with its civilian jurisdiction, is in anyway proscribed from dealing with the Mexican Military.

If not, then I'm fine with that. I'm just trying to get clear on who is responsible for what.

[Marine Inspector]

This is how I see it.

If the BP is on the job, and these scum bags cross the line, then they are fair game. The BP is enforcing the Immigration laws, these scum bags broke those laws, and they are armed. If the resist, shoot first, ask questions later.

The down side, is that Washington has shifted the BP's priorities, from law enforcement to search and rescue, and have taken away many of their long guns.

[Luis Gonzalez]

"What do you think the policy should be in this instance?"

It all depends on the exact reason why they crossed the border.

I am sure that this goes on both ways too.

If there is some sort of arrangement where the mexican military can pursue a fleeing criminal into US soil, and this policy is applicable both ways, then let it be.

If not, fix it with diplomacy, and without creating a Palestine at our borders.

[Sir Gawain]

Me, too. And I'll be watching.

But you will always vote for him, so he doesn't really have to care what you think, now does he?

[Ajnin]

BORTAC stands for Border Patrol Tactical (Team). BORTAC has everything they need to deal with the Mexican Military. The Border Patrol is supposed to be a paramilitary organization, at least that's what they tell everyone at the academy. Given the above along with our responsibility of securing the border, I think the Border Patrol has an obligation to not only shoot back, but to pursue them to the border. I think the military should then take up where we left off at the border. The military should follow them into Mexico until they are all dead or surrender.

[Ajnin]

That's why I'm wondering if the Border Patrol, with its civilian jurisdiction, is in anyway proscribed from dealing with the Mexican Military.

If the Border Patrol had intel about a possible incursion, there isn't anything that I know of that would prevent the Border Patrol from using it's own assets such as BORTAC to either apprehend or shoot the Mexican Military. If there was ever any inclination to actually do something about a future incursion, I think the military would probably be used if there was enough time to deploy.